That’ll open up in due time for you I am sure.

Posted by shane182436 on 7/13/2022 11:20:00 AM (view original):
As a side note, I'd be less likely to complain about a bad recruiting system if I could take my mid major success and move to a power conference job worth anything.

You will have opportunities without a doubt. There will be movement amongst the coaches. Maybe not as much in the worlds that you play in (I don't know because I don't play in 2x worlds). Not sure if you've applied in the past, and got denied. But keep in mind if that's the case, it will help your cause a lot more if you can land a few more NT births. As of now, you may get beat often by another coach's resume if they apply for a job that you apply for as well. Keep building that school you have and you'll be able to get a job in the power conferences eventually

Posted by shane182436 on 7/13/2022 11:20:00 AM (view original):
As a side note, I'd be less likely to complain about a bad recruiting system if I could take my mid major success and move to a power conference job worth anything.

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but after looking at your resume, it seems like you're struggling a bit in mid-majors. P6 conferences are only going to be more difficult. I would guess this is more of an issue with your recruiting practices and not the randomness of dice rolls.

You seem to jump around schools frequently which hurts your resume as well. Spend 12+ seasons at the same school, iron out your recruiting game plan, and try to make the postseason consistently before going to a P6 conference. That would be my advice if you truly want to advance in this game.

I appreciate the advice, misguided or not. I've spent 12 of the last 17 seasons in Phelan at one program and have made the post season 4 of the last 5 seasons with 5 straight conference championships. Granted it's a league with a good bit of SIMs and there's a long list of people in the game with a ton more success, but I'm not sure taking a D- program and getting them to a Top 25 finish is struggling.

Posted by shane182436 on 7/14/2022 2:18:00 PM (view original):
I appreciate the advice, misguided or not. I've spent 12 of the last 17 seasons in Phelan at one program and have made the post season 4 of the last 5 seasons with 5 straight conference championships. Granted it's a league with a good bit of SIMs and there's a long list of people in the game with a ton more success, but I'm not sure taking a D- program and getting them to a Top 25 finish is struggling.

It depends on the way you're looking at it, compared to the way the game looks at it. Again, as mlitney mentioned, trying to provide constructive criticism...... you only have one D1 season in a long long time, with an rpi at 64 or better. Yes you have made the NT, but that actually speaks more about the poor quality of the conference than it does the success of your program. You can succeed that way if you're winning some NT games once you DO get in the tourney, and proving that you're more worthy than your rpi, sos, projection says. But you haven't quite reached that yet. And making the PI doesn't help as much as we may hope. The actual Top 25 ranking is more of a window dressing in this game, and the metrics I mentioned above are what your status is based on.

I still believe you'd be eligible for the lower end power 6 schools, based on amount of seasons played. But that would put you in an even more difficult predicament. As you'd be facing juggernauts night in and night out.

Good luck with the build, and I hope a decent school opens up that you have interest in.

I agree with mlitney and top. I jumped back into the game after a long hiatus and the first D1 I went to was Washington State in the Pac 10 which was a lower prestige team at the time. I never got my footing and wasn't ready for such a challenge in all honesty. I went back to some lower divisions to relearn the game and 3.0. I eventually went back up to d1 with William and Mary (taking over for a decently successful coach). They were a B presitge team, but there is not that much competition for lesser conference team that are B-level prestige. I got the job coming of a runner-up season at d2. Eventually, I landed that one top recruit winning a roll I was favored. This was after losing other recruits but always having backups ready to go when I lost (something that is invaluable as a mid-major in an "easier" conference"). With that star in a small conference and finally a favorable bracket I turned some modest success into a Sweet 16 appearance (after 5 NT appearances with no wins over 6 seasons). I landed the job at Colorado. I've slowly built up that program and we just went to the Elite 8 and are overall trending upwards.

So be ready for what your jumping into in a power conference. I wasn't, but I still learned a lot from the coaches in there. Just lurking the coaches corner with shoe3, alockwood86, gdog13cave, and others was super helpful. I'm still learning for sure, but I'm miles ahead of where I was at Wazzu.

Posted by wesmike on 7/14/2022 11:16:00 PM (view original):
I agree with mlitney and top. I jumped back into the game after a long hiatus and the first D1 I went to was Washington State in the Pac 10 which was a lower prestige team at the time. I never got my footing and wasn't ready for such a challenge in all honesty. I went back to some lower divisions to relearn the game and 3.0. I eventually went back up to d1 with William and Mary (taking over for a decently successful coach). They were a B presitge team, but there is not that much competition for lesser conference team that are B-level prestige. I got the job coming of a runner-up season at d2. Eventually, I landed that one top recruit winning a roll I was favored. This was after losing other recruits but always having backups ready to go when I lost (something that is invaluable as a mid-major in an "easier" conference"). With that star in a small conference and finally a favorable bracket I turned some modest success into a Sweet 16 appearance (after 5 NT appearances with no wins over 6 seasons). I landed the job at Colorado. I've slowly built up that program and we just went to the Elite 8 and are overall trending upwards.

So be ready for what your jumping into in a power conference. I wasn't, but I still learned a lot from the coaches in there. Just lurking the coaches corner with shoe3, alockwood86, gdog13cave, and others was super helpful. I'm still learning for sure, but I'm miles ahead of where I was at Wazzu.

I don't disagree with this advice or with that the fact this is the path that the game intends for people to take. But as you said, it comes down to waiting for the favorable roll on a big time recruit who turns into a low/mid major super star to line up with a favorable bracket. You could easily sit here for 2 or 3 years waiting for those starts to align, while stuck in neutral at a successful mid major program in a weak conference. You can "learn" the game more and more without a doubt, but you're depending on the rolls and breaks regardless. I guess that's where my frustration with the game and in turn recruiting lay; there's a ceiling to how much additional time and effort put into the game can pay off. Really good stuff at Colorado though, hell of a job you've done there.

Depending on rolls is part of the game at every level. More so at the top of food chain. Getting into the power 6 conferences makes you rely even more on rolls. But that's not a bad thing. Sure you may lose rolls you lead in. Everyone does. But it's not always going to happen. You just have to be intelligent with your recruiting direction on a consistent basis. Look for those wants rebuild guys. Avoid battling for a long term coach preference player (if you're new to a school), or vice versa. Find a good player that has preferences in both your sets. Load up 1000 AP or more. Things like that. You may lose the first roll. But you won't lose forever, especially if you're putting yourself in favorable situations consistently.

There's also so many ways to play that don't "force" to wait on that one roll to improve. Run a Fb/press, get 12 players with good SPD and high high stamina (as in, targeting stamina as a priority core rating, and not just "a good player that happens to have good stamina"). Get a 6 man class like that, then continue that path the next couple seasons, and then run teams into the ground. With the right players, that type of team doesn't necessarily need mega talent. If they all have 90 ST, they can be average talent and you can see some success. Or run a triangle/man. And that one season you're able to sign a great PER guy and a great LP guy, follow it up the next few seasons with nothing but elite defenders and mix in some passing. You can get away with just a couple elite scorers in a triangle. When you're at the point your competing to just improve (and not necessarily for championships), you don't "need" EE quality players to accomplish that.

Also, not sure if any jobs opened up for Shane or not, but Virginia, Arizona St, Seton Hall, and Rutgers were/are open in Naismith this season. Just sharing to point out that opportunities will become available!

Posted by wesmike on 7/14/2022 11:16:00 PM (view original):
I agree with mlitney and top. I jumped back into the game after a long hiatus and the first D1 I went to was Washington State in the Pac 10 which was a lower prestige team at the time. I never got my footing and wasn't ready for such a challenge in all honesty. I went back to some lower divisions to relearn the game and 3.0. I eventually went back up to d1 with William and Mary (taking over for a decently successful coach). They were a B presitge team, but there is not that much competition for lesser conference team that are B-level prestige. I got the job coming of a runner-up season at d2. Eventually, I landed that one top recruit winning a roll I was favored. This was after losing other recruits but always having backups ready to go when I lost (something that is invaluable as a mid-major in an "easier" conference"). With that star in a small conference and finally a favorable bracket I turned some modest success into a Sweet 16 appearance (after 5 NT appearances with no wins over 6 seasons). I landed the job at Colorado. I've slowly built up that program and we just went to the Elite 8 and are overall trending upwards.

So be ready for what your jumping into in a power conference. I wasn't, but I still learned a lot from the coaches in there. Just lurking the coaches corner with shoe3, alockwood86, gdog13cave, and others was super helpful. I'm still learning for sure, but I'm miles ahead of where I was at Wazzu.

this is a fairly typical experience. BCS conferences tend to require a big step forward for coaches. this isn't necessarily true if you came up through one of the top handful of lower division conferences, or in one of the handful of really competitive mid majors, but for 90% + of folks, its going to be a big step forward - more than most folks expect. just having that level of competition game in and game out for 16 games is a real adjustment!

anyway, folks who rush to BCS conferences should expect a pretty rude awakening upon arrival, and hopefully won't let it deter them if they feel the need to drop back down to work on their game before returning. its awesome you took the path you did, but i think a lot of folks get to the BCS and get frustrated and bail. so i guess i would just encourage anyone who is going through what wesmike went through on his first PAC 10 job, to be patient and to see the silver lining - that there is a LOT left to experience in this game. if you are getting frustrated, take a step back, work on your game, and return another day to seek your vengeance!

“Also, not sure if any jobs opened up for Shane or not, but Virginia, Arizona St, Seton Hall, and Rutgers were/are open in Naismith this season. Just sharing to point out that opportunities will become available!“

Please gods someone take one of the NJ schools in Naismith. Nova is open now too, but at B- prestige will be be out of reach for more coaches this season.

Posted by Nick_Bennett on 7/8/2022 11:16:00 PM (view original):
I cant win a pucking roll lately. Losing when im ahead. Losing when im behind. Losing everytime.

Carve that on my HD tombstone.