The top 2-3 fielding coaches available are often the top paid coaches. The top FC available will go for $3-4-5M in many worlds.

Most player development happens while they are in the minors their first 2-3 seasons after signing. You can bring prospects up sooner but that does not make good financial sense (a topic for a different discussion). Assuming a player has already had 3+ seasons in the minors they are only going to gain 2-4 more points after reaching the majors in some ratings. That means ML coaches only help on the last few points of ratings increases.

Top ML coaches (90+ rated) usually get bid up to around $1M more than the mid-tier (80s rated) coaches go for. A 90 rated coach will develop players better than an 80 rated coach but remember, you are only talking about 2-4 points of development. That $1M extra you spent to get that 90+ rated coach is only going to get you 1-2 more points in some ratings most of the time. There may be a better use for that $1M somewhere else in your budget.

ML coaches also make a difference in how soon/fast an older player declines. Do you have an older ML team? If yes, spending a little extra on ML coaches is likely a wise choice.

Posted by Mwett on 7/30/2022 6:08:00 PM (view original):
Yes plz be in my world and division and pay your FC $3-4-5M.

Your teams are 176-310, and you have never made the playoffs. Maybe better to listen to him and consider that you don’t yet have it all figured out.

Fielding coaches affect not only the major leagues, but every player in the minors. They are the most valuable coach you have.

Posted by Mwett on 7/30/2022 6:08:00 PM (view original):
Yes plz be in my world and division and pay your FC $3-4-5M.

Mwett -- You are in Moneyball and Pete Rose worlds. In Moneyball the highest paid fielding coach is being paid $6.4M. In Pete Rose the highest paid fielding coach is being paid $3.6M.

I wasn't advocating for all in on FC. You had said the Big 3 (BC, HC, PC) were the most expensive. I was just pointing out that in many worlds the FC is the highest paid of those 4.

That said, I do often go big on the best FC. It works for the kind of team I like to build but it is not a hard requirement to be successful in this game.

Posted by Mwett on 7/30/2022 10:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by LoboOne04 on 7/30/2022 8:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Mwett on 7/30/2022 6:08:00 PM (view original):
Yes plz be in my world and division and pay your FC $3-4-5M.

Your teams are 176-310, and you have never made the playoffs. Maybe better to listen to him and consider that you don’t yet have it all figured out.

Fielding coaches affect not only the major leagues, but every player in the minors. They are the most valuable coach you have.

Few things :

You're missing a big part of the newb m.o. about my growing pains small sample record which I don't care about while I try to get better, plus a couple of those teams were free/cheap albatrosses I babysat while trying to feel my way.

I didn't know he was advocating for all-in on FC. I'LL reconsider. I thought it was simply additional info to my examples of discounts on the high-end ML side of coaching. At least one of the teams mentioned did not have that FI as available but was rehired. I'll continue to look where and to what extent to put my resources.

I spent an average amount on total coaching, not cheap everywhere. But it was ML I found some savings and knew to ask if there'd be player performance repercussions because of it. Sounds like there could be some even though I got many of the best available which I've admitted might not be the same as best overall who were rehired.

But if I spent $4.4M combined on the best available ML BC, PC, HC, FI whose rates aren't chopped liver, is the savings still overall a disservice to the extra rating point or two I might miss out on ? That's all I was asking. Where else I put most of the rest of coaching budget plus health, medical, training I already know the ML handoff will be receiving as close as possible a finished product to begin with, so is going the extra coaching mile there relatively speaking still worth it if that's an angle I've stumbled upon to try ? No is ok answer. I'm still just fishing.

You did well in Curt Flood. I don't believe you have to worry about lost potential.

Also worth noting that a fielding instructor who is interested in returning to your team will accept around $750K per season, whereas your “big three” will want something much closer to market rate. So the fielding instructor represents potential future value if he has a high loyalty rating.

Back to the original question... I blow off my ML hitting, pitching, and bench coaches until the last day of hiring, usually landing coaches in the low-mid-80s at or near the minimum salary. The only thing they seem to matter for if you're not playing young players in the majors is tiebreakers on max FA bids, and I essentially never make a max FA bid.

This might be a bad strategy, but I haven't seen evidence to make me change my mind yet. Especially the ML bench coach-- I set my argumentative to zero and forget about the ML bench coach, and if at each game I could take a random fan from the stands to be my bench coach for a day, I would do that.

People make coaching hires harder than it has to be. Here's the jist:

TL;DR - always hire a top FI, pay half price for all other ML coaches, and don't waste your time on minor coaching.

1. Coaching doesn't have a huge impact on player ratings or performance UNLESS they are extremely low for their position - meaning don't sign a pitching coach as your hitting coach. That said, there's going to be some benefits at the margins so you shouldn't completely ignore obtaining good coaching either.

2. As other have mentioned FI are the most important and expensive position because they affect the fielding ratings of all your players both ML and minors. He's essentially 6 coaches in one (the FI for all 6 lvls). Always break the bank for a top FI unless you want all your SS to be 3B. Usually ~$4M gets it done. Focus on high loyalty guys so they have a higher change to re-sign for cheap in subsequent seasons.

3. You can have 85+ rated coaches at every ML position for ~$7M (excluding FI). Yes, even at bullpen, 1B, and 3B. All you have to do is wait until everyone else has paid full price. The remaining coaches will take 50% of their ask and there's always a few good or even great coaches left at this time. This perk is available somewhere around the 2nd or 3rd to last day of coach signings. I almost always have the best ML coaching staff in my leagues, as a whole, for $8M ($11M if I need a FI)

4. Don't waste much of your time on minor coaching. Sign guys that are good enough for their lvl. For minor league coaches, a 50+ loyalty is the most important rating for me because it saves me a ton of time and hassle come the next coach signing period if most/all my guys come back. I would much rather my coaches stick around year after year and develop in my system rather than screw around with bidding. They are always gaining ratings every year, which means they will always be steadily moving up in my system, but only if they stick around.

EDIT: Dedelman makes an excellent point - top coaches are a must when offering max contracts.

I didn't want to write all that so I waited for dedelman and brianplath. Agreed 100%.

IMO Coach Hiring is nothing but a chore and an overspend if you treat it as competing for the best free agents. I rehire from within as much as possible, promote them whenever possible.
Keep a good FI as long as you can. First thing I check after rollover (I'm not kidding) is whether my FI is coming back. If not it's an automatic $3-4 mil add to my coaching budget - I want to make sure I get whichever of the top three FIs available are, because all the other owners are bringing theirs back if they can. If you're in the market for a new FI you're already at a budgetary disadvantage.

The flaw in the system IMO is that whenever coaches reach their core rating (Pitching, Hitting, Strategy) at 75/80+, they start looking for Major League jobs.
In theory I guess it makes some kind of sense but in practice it creates a huge backlog of coaches for those roles at the ML level. They're not getting hired because like brianplath inferred, you can just wait and get an 80-85ish coach for whatever pocket change you have left.

Also, this is just me reading into it, but I believe this threshold tells me that the game thinks it's perfectly fine to toodle along with Major League coaches at the 75/80 promotion level. ie Replacement Level / Won't hurt your players.

All these things in play, the only time I ever spend the full $2.2-$2.5 mil ask for Major League coaches is if I'm keeping my current ones because I have an (illogical-ish) attachment to them. Especially the Bench coach, biggest waste of money in the entire game. Admittedly I'm wasting 2 mil on my own right now.

Posted by brianplath on 7/31/2022 11:53:00 AM (view original):
People make coaching hires harder than it has to be. Here's the jist:

TL;DR - always hire a top FI, pay half price for all other ML coaches, and don't waste your time on minor coaching.

1. Coaching doesn't have a huge impact on player ratings or performance UNLESS they are extremely low for their position - meaning don't sign a pitching coach as your hitting coach. That said, there's going to be some benefits at the margins so you shouldn't completely ignore obtaining good coaching either.

2. As other have mentioned FI are the most important and expensive position because they affect the fielding ratings of all your players both ML and minors. He's essentially 6 coaches in one (the FI for all 6 lvls). Always break the bank for a top FI unless you want all your SS to be 3B. Usually ~$4M gets it done. Focus on high loyalty guys so they have a higher change to re-sign for cheap in subsequent seasons.

3. You can have 85+ rated coaches at every ML position for ~$7M (excluding FI). Yes, even at bullpen, 1B, and 3B. All you have to do is wait until everyone else has paid full price. The remaining coaches will take 50% of their ask and there's always a few good or even great coaches left at this time. This perk is available somewhere around the 2nd or 3rd to last day of coach signings. I almost always have the best ML coaching staff in my leagues, as a whole, for $8M ($11M if I need a FI)

4. Don't waste much of your time on minor coaching. Sign guys that are good enough for their lvl. For minor league coaches, a 50+ loyalty is the most important rating for me because it saves me a ton of time and hassle come the next coach signing period if most/all my guys come back. I would much rather my coaches stick around year after year and develop in my system rather than screw around with bidding. They are always gaining ratings every year, which means they will always be steadily moving up in my system, but only if they stick around.

EDIT: Dedelman makes an excellent point - top coaches are a must when offering max contracts.

To clarify, if you wait until the last 2-3 coaching hire cycles demands will have dropped significantly from the original ask (i.e $2.5M to say $1.3M).

Are you saying at the end of coach hiring they will accept an offer of 50% of the already reduced demand? (i.e $700k offer when demand has already dropped to $1.3M). Or just that demand will have dropped 50% from their day 1 ask?

I'm not 100% certain of this but I think remaining openings has something to do with their willingness to sign for less than ask. I wait for the morning of the last day then throw out a few lowball offers. I've had some rejected but I've also had some accepted, and I think it's when you see that remaining openings number drop to (5) or less.

@GO

From the Day1 amnt, not 50% off of the 50%. Maybe you can get them even cheaper but tbh I've never tried. I heard the 50% trick early in my HBD career and have just stuck with that.

Also, I don't usually keep track of the exact cycle or the coaches' updated asking amounts because I always put in my 50% bids the very first coaching cycle on the top3 guys at each position. Most of the owners in my leagues don't put in offers that first cycle. When they do get around to coach hiring a cycle or two later, I'm guessing many see that the top guys have offers already and just assume someone is overpaying for them and don't bother putting in a normal bid. I get a surprising amount of top tier coaches doing this.

Nice fake-out! I've done this with minor league coaches but for some reason never thought anyone might fall for it in the majors!