Obviously speed is important in the press, but I’m curious about how important elite speed is.

I’m considering transitioning my NC A&T squat from zone to press/zone and maybe eventually to press only. I finally have a deep roster and will graduate just 3 seniors over the next 2 seasons.

The hesitation I have is that I do not have great speed. I have one guard that will get up to 95 speed, but the rest of my backcourt will top out anywhere from 60 to 80.

I know I can focus more on speed in the future, but I might have a team that can compete a little bit over the next 3 seasons and I’m hoping to make the NT once or twice and hopefully get a prestige bump to help in that recruiting. So I am very concerned about the immediate future.

So the short version……. Can I run the press and run it with success at the D1 level having just one player topping 90 speed? What about in a full and extremely competitive conference?

My last three stops in Smith I've given HCP/zone a whirl. The first time at Colorado I was in the same situation where I had a couple good recruiting cycles with a zone team and ended up with alot of quality young players and the depth did not lend itself to zone so I added HCP. My main concern was that I had been recruiting slower guards that had other skills that suited well in the rest of what I was trying to do. Season 123 was the first time I had players that had decent IQ in both press and zone. My fastest guard/wing had 81 speed and the rest were between 68-79. I still saw a noticeable uptick in steals (probably 3-4 a game) which is the advantage of HCP despite having slow guards even by non-press standards. That team made it to the elite 8.

I did the inverse at LSU; ie I started with the press and added the zone. I only really ran the dual set for 3 seasons and that team culminated in a loss in the championship game. That team did have a couple of speedsters, but in multiple tourney games I started a player with 60 speed at SG. At both places, I had more success when I ran the combo defense than I did running either FCP or zone and arguably the teams were more talented when I wasn't running the combo. Therefore, I do think the combination helped my success. That's small sample size / anecdotal but was my experience. I think at high D1 using extra practice minutes in a second defense is a better utilization of practice minutes than individual minutes (which drives quality players up the big board). The combination also does a good job covering the flaws of each set (HCP adds more turnovers which lessons the rebounding/turnover negative impact from zone and zone prevents players from getting fatigued nearly as fast and allows for alot more flexibility in game planning that a FCP).

Got alittle off-topic there on my HCP/zone evangelical soapbox but I dont think slow guards will kill you in a HCP. Would I have preferred faster guards on those teams? Yes, of course and likely it would have led to an extra steal or two but cant have perfect players in all slots. I dont think speed has to be as high of an emphasis in a combo as it is in FCP; although, as you mentioned, you may want to give it more consideration in future recruiting periods.

I would strongly urge you not to do a combo defense. Spreading your valuable practice mins on two defenses is unwise. Either pick press or zone. Master one, don't be mediocre in two.

I’m torn on this. I’m not a fan of the combo defense. But D1 as always, is just a different animal. In lower divisions I used to love seeing my NT opponent running a combo because I felt like I’d always be prepared to crush them. And often times it turned out that way. But texashick makes some good points.

one being the big board. That’s the #1 deal breaker in D1. I live my D1 life saying “if I don’t lose my EE, I’m gonna contend for a title next season!” only to lose my EE the next week. There’s also the factor of a lot of D1 players capping earlier because their ratings start higher.

In the case of press/zone combo, if you have been putting minutes on both, you can lean more heavily on press if you win all your rolls in recruiting. But if you lose your rolls and lose some unexpected players to the draft, you may be able to get away with running zone only. Even if your IQs aren’t top notch, you’re not stuck pressing with 8 players.

the combo isn’t for me. But I can see making a case for attempting it at D1

I would not recommend the combo in D2/D3. But when D1 teams start to have 3-4 guys that will eventually be drafted and guys that will max out fairly early, I really think its a smart use of practice minutes. Other benefits include 1) getting a "High" preference on 2/3 defenses and 2) the ability to shift up to FCP in years when you have alot of bodies or in games against teams running very tight rosters 3) the ability to downshift to zone in years when you strike out in recruiting or in games when you have 9 guys and the other team will run uptempo FCP/FB. I also find it really hard in D1 to consistently keep a full 12 man roster which I think really makes FCP the most effective, so this is a good way to get some of the press benefits.

It's not the easiest defense to run and definitely not the easiest way to win but I like it as a fun change up.

IMO, speed is the most important attribute in press. A guard with lower defense and higher speed will get more steals than a guard with low speed and higher defense...

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone.

Texashick, the flexibility you mention is the primary reason I'm considering a combo. I've always been interested in a combo D, but have always kinda avoided it due to the practice minutes issue. But looking at my roster, I'm pretty confident I can max out my players' attributes and have extra minutes to develop to defensive IQs over the next couple seasons. I was reading your 'D1 rebuild' guide earlier this week. That was very helpful as well. Thank you.

Glad to help! Good luck

Tex is a better evangelist than I ever was, but I've been saying the same things about combo for years. My teams used to all be zone/press combo. And I've only ever spent 10 minutes on the press. Zone is the base defense, press is just there for some additional TOV/g. You don't need 8 guys at B+ or better for it to work.

I have a D3 title and a couple D2 titles with the combo, but notably I don't play them anymore. A) I'm kind of bored with it, but also B) it doesn't work as well since D1 has become more populated. One of the side effects of higher population up there is that those teams are coming down for the 75-150 ranked by position players more often, and those are the backbone of high level D2 teams. That's fine, affects everyone, except with the extra ~10 minutes you're using for the press, reaching down for lower starting players with upside is more costly. You need guys who can get to elite level on their own, quickly, and it's a tightrope when C- teams keep dropping in heavy on recruits 3 cycles before the end of the 1st session. It puts a premium on location and knowing who is in your area, and what they need, and that's all just too much work for me these days.

To OP, speed is important for the press. In a straight press, you are trying to win by creating turnovers and winning the TOV battle. That is driven by the speed of your guards. I have speed as a little more important than defense for guards, and about even for SF. I don't give speed much thought for the front court, unless I'm thinking about whether they can handle a high distribution or not, and that's got nothing to do with pressing. Athleticism is important too even for guards, for avoiding fouls; and obviously stamina is right there with it, unless you run 12 deep comfortably, and don't mind slowing down.

Posted by shoe3 on 10/21/2022 3:09:00 AM (view original):
Tex is a better evangelist than I ever was, but I've been saying the same things about combo for years. My teams used to all be zone/press combo. And I've only ever spent 10 minutes on the press. Zone is the base defense, press is just there for some additional TOV/g. You don't need 8 guys at B+ or better for it to work.

I have a D3 title and a couple D2 titles with the combo, but notably I don't play them anymore. A) I'm kind of bored with it, but also B) it doesn't work as well since D1 has become more populated. One of the side effects of higher population up there is that those teams are coming down for the 75-150 ranked by position players more often, and those are the backbone of high level D2 teams. That's fine, affects everyone, except with the extra ~10 minutes you're using for the press, reaching down for lower starting players with upside is more costly. You need guys who can get to elite level on their own, quickly, and it's a tightrope when C- teams keep dropping in heavy on recruits 3 cycles before the end of the 1st session. It puts a premium on location and knowing who is in your area, and what they need, and that's all just too much work for me these days.

To OP, speed is important for the press. In a straight press, you are trying to win by creating turnovers and winning the TOV battle. That is driven by the speed of your guards. I have speed as a little more important than defense for guards, and about even for SF. I don't give speed much thought for the front court, unless I'm thinking about whether they can handle a high distribution or not, and that's got nothing to do with pressing. Athleticism is important too even for guards, for avoiding fouls; and obviously stamina is right there with it, unless you run 12 deep comfortably, and don't mind slowing down.

Shoe is, of course, the person that first got me thinking about the combo and talked me off the ledge when I was worried about the speed of my guards for my first team. I actually still remember making dinner on the grill and him telling me that it would still work (which it did although the steak was a little over cooked since I spent too long reading and thinking about the sitemail).

so mumcoach, if it works for you, consider yourself part of the shoe coaching tree.