This will come as a surprise to no one but I figure I'll put it out here just to bring light to it and have a discussion about this.

Holy %$&* do owners ever try to fleece new owners in the trade pits. Not only that but if you are an owner with under 20 seasons and you try to make a reasonable trade to a veteran owner they will out and out refuse and scoff at it (I think that angers me more then the trying to fleece).

Don't believe me? Next time WIS has a promo on, create a new account, join a world you don't have a team in (no collusion) and see what happens. Its wild!

I've posted on here a few times that my dad and I have an account together called ThePearsons that is in Josh Gibson. Under this account I don't have any teams in that world or vice versa. I wanted to take advantage of the discount season promo code for HBD as well as have an account my dad could access under his email without having to worry about getting muddled with my team.

This season our bullpen has been absolute trash. ERA's around 7 and 8. Hitting has been good, the starting rotation has been decent. We figure we pick up one or two moderate bullpen pieces (SuB's or guys in their late 30's) and we may be able to get to .500 maybe even a playoff spot.

Like I said, I don't fault owners who make the offer, here take these 2 middling aging bullpen pieces for your best pitching prospect that will be an ace in 2-3 seasons. I know better then to expect any differently, but when I offer back 'hey, how about this lotto ticket or a decent prospect for one of the guys' and they out and out say 'no thanks' without a counter offer, I know for a fact its because ThePearsons has 3 seasons under the account as opposed to the 50 or 60 some that I have with this team.

No wonder its so hard to attract new owners to this game.

As a still relatively new owner, I don't disagree with this. Not only was I trying to learn what ratings actually matter more than others; but trying to work deals I saw a lot of requests for my best prospects for AAAA type players. Compared to other trades that were happening, I didn't feel I was getting similar value offers. I will add that a lot of offers the first 2-3 seasons were hyper focused around OAV. I'd be offered a great OAV guy but he was carried by his general stats over his on field stats. Now there's something to say about a player remaining healthy and staying on the field; but when the guy could barely hit or pitch in the majors it doesn't matter if he can stay in the game or not.

I agree with Bripat42 ..I continuously get trade offers that I'm amazed someone has the nerve to propose, and I am certainly not a newbie. I guess maybe owners look at my overall record and assume I have no idea what I am doing. (They are probably right)

I feel like there are some major differences in valuations of players by different owners as well. Especially in light of contract status. A good player on a bad contract can be a net negative.

I get some offers for Type A free agents that will not re-sign with me. I get very low if not terrible offers because "They are just a rental since they will not re-sign remark". If I am not mistaken they would get the 2 picks for a Type A like I would so I expect a fair deal . I have been in worlds where owners simply relish newbies and try to get the best prospects for hardly anything.

Posted by gbuck44 on 2/28/2023 11:04:00 AM (view original):
I get some offers for Type A free agents that will not re-sign with me. I get very low if not terrible offers because "They are just a rental since they will not re-sign remark". If I am not mistaken they would get the 2 picks for a Type A like I would so I expect a fair deal . I have been in worlds where owners simply relish newbies and try to get the best prospects for hardly anything.

This one gets a little tough to gauge though. Some years those two picks are great and potential back of the rotation or another role player; other years your type A gets bumped to the 3rd round because of FA signings in an already weak draft and you get zero future ML depth.

There are definitely plenty of used car salesman types in this game. An owner with a below .475 winning percentage or below 5 seasons is easier prey than an owner with a .525+ winning percentage or 25+ seasons of experience. There are definitely outliers to this -- owners with 100+ seasons that still fall victim to lopsided trades where they're on the losing end; owners with less then ten seasons of experience that have done really well and might even win some of those lopsided trades. Bripat is right too, though -- there are users that just don't care. They'll keep sending lopsided trade offers to anyone.

To me, the worst two things about this game are:

1. Injury recovery;
2. Lopsided trades

I don't think it's bias when a used car salesman goes after the folks that have a higher probability of being their sucker. I think it's predatory. I would compare it to that guy in real life that dates widows or mentally challenged women or any other woman that has some type of vulnerability. Those guys are cowards in real life and I see them as cowards in HBD as well. If you have prey on "weaker" teams to be successful, you're at best a loser and at worst an HBD predatory coward.

Posted by yumen442 on 2/27/2023 11:35:00 PM (view original):
I feel like there are some major differences in valuations of players by different owners as well. Especially in light of contract status. A good player on a bad contract can be a net negative.

I agree with this statement as well. I've seen offers accepted when I made what I thought was a better offer, but based on scouting , etc what I see one way, another owner sees a different way.

Some owners have brought up a good point as well. Having an account with 60+ seasons, it may not mean that owners go into trades not expecting to fleece me, but I have build up trading reputations with owners over those 50 some seasons. In Riley I know of a few owners that I can go to if I need a piece, I know what the price is going to be and if we are a little off on price we can 'owe each other one' going forward. Part of this is also why having owner retention in leagues can be so important.

A couple of thoughts:

1/ I think most of us know the completely unsolicited trade offer with no chat or inquiry is almost always garbage. Two or three useless Quad-A players for one prospect, that kind of thing. THE one move that irks me more than anything is Bait And Switch. "Player is available for right price." So you make an offer that you feel is the right price, not a screw him over offer, and he comes back with "I'm going to need that player plus another better one." Rare but an instant chat closer.

2/ Related to what hockey said, you find owners you can deal with just because from the first chat you know the dude is genuinely just trying to improve his team and not "win the trade." If a guy puts up a fair offer, even if I don't want it it wins him instant respect from me. Best of all is when you get an offer that isn't what you thought of but you realize maybe the guy has a point, he's seen something you haven't. Again, instant respect.

Agree with a lot of good points here.

Good vet owners understand that win/win trades are good for the long term health of the league while owners who try to extract huge value from trades can oftentimes leads to the dissolution of leagues if not called out and vetoed. A soon as one player starts vulturing through trades, a few others guys start to as well just to keep up. And all of a sudden there's two or three super teams and a rush towards the exits by everyone else.

I'll be totally honest, and this isn't to give myself a pat on the back or a 'look at me moment' but rather I think this is a practice that, similar to what Brian mentioned, helps keep long term health of a league and keeps newer owners around longer.

I've had times when a newer owner, or sometimes even a veteran owner in my league makes me a trade that is greatly lopsided in my favour. I cold probably just click 'accept'. It might get vetoed, it might not, but I will often write back and say 'that player is worth much more then that to me. Let me throw in another piece.' and I will often add another prospect or player on an entry level deal. Hopefully this helps the owner realize the value of certian players, and as they are in the league longer hopefully this will help to build good credibility between the two of us for future trades.

Posted by brianplath on 3/1/2023 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Agree with a lot of good points here.

Good vet owners understand that win/win trades are good for the long term health of the league while owners who try to extract huge value from trades can oftentimes leads to the dissolution of leagues if not called out and vetoed. A soon as one player starts vulturing through trades, a few others guys start to as well just to keep up. And all of a sudden there's two or three super teams and a rush towards the exits by everyone else.

Easy way to determine which worlds are good and which are garbage. You can cull through previous seasons' trade history and see if enough owners give a crap about their world.

Then there are the crybabies who wanna quit cause "they paid for their team and should be able to do what they want". They find vetoes unacceptable unless extremely egregious.

Your world is better off without those folks.

Posted by damag on 3/1/2023 9:52:00 AM (view original):
A couple of thoughts:

1/ I think most of us know the completely unsolicited trade offer with no chat or inquiry is almost always garbage. Two or three useless Quad-A players for one prospect, that kind of thing. THE one move that irks me more than anything is Bait And Switch. "Player is available for right price." So you make an offer that you feel is the right price, not a screw him over offer, and he comes back with "I'm going to need that player plus another better one." Rare but an instant chat closer.

2/ Related to what hockey said, you find owners you can deal with just because from the first chat you know the dude is genuinely just trying to improve his team and not "win the trade." If a guy puts up a fair offer, even if I don't want it it wins him instant respect from me. Best of all is when you get an offer that isn't what you thought of but you realize maybe the guy has a point, he's seen something you haven't. Again, instant respect.

Yes damag well said, I agree wholeheartedly with your most irksome move, this has happened to me a few times, and I just recoil and never bother with that coach again. The counter will often one of your top two prospects in addition to what you already were discussing.

Posted by bruceleefan on 3/2/2023 9:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by brianplath on 3/1/2023 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Agree with a lot of good points here.

Good vet owners understand that win/win trades are good for the long term health of the league while owners who try to extract huge value from trades can oftentimes leads to the dissolution of leagues if not called out and vetoed. A soon as one player starts vulturing through trades, a few others guys start to as well just to keep up. And all of a sudden there's two or three super teams and a rush towards the exits by everyone else.

Easy way to determine which worlds are good and which are garbage. You can cull through previous seasons' trade history and see if enough owners give a crap about their world.

Then there are the crybabies who wanna quit cause "they paid for their team and should be able to do what they want". They find vetoes unacceptable unless extremely egregious.

Your world is better off without those folks.

Great point here! HBD retains a lot of a world's history especially its Transactions. Takes a little time but if you do a deep dive into an owner or franchise you can learn a lot about his history, how he builds his team.