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gin_caesar
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Quote: Originally Posted By metsmax on 1/20/2010

I read folks who are peeved at a particular game or result - and I am ready to believe that the engine has some defects - most likely in some sorts of extreme situations that were not fully thought out, but the leap from peeved at a result to indicting the RNG is big for me

yup, going, say, 0-15 from the FT line should not happen - does it ever happen in a season of real life? dont know......might it happen in a simulation - yes - would it take a very sophisticated model to keep it from happening, yes.....heck if I know

but peeved at weird result does not tell me that the RNG is broke

I quit HD because of the unrealistic outcomes. I had an absurd D3 team during the superclass era with a starting lineup all around 800 and a bench just as good. They used to destroy D1 teams in exhibition. Two years in a row I was ousted by scrub teams running -5 in the NT, and each time my team which averaged 50% shooting behind the arc went 1/30 or something ridiculous, despite me toning down my 3 pt frequencies in favor of a balanced approach when I saw the -5 coming. At that point I decided it was a waste to keep trying, when superior teams and strategies were getting beat by known glitches like -5 and slowdown that WIS was pretending didn't exist.

Unfortunately, that's indicative to me of something far more ingrained and complex than a simple rng problem. There are just certain situations where the sim fails to properly assess what should be happening, there's too much going on under the hood to pin it down to something specific without looking.
1/20/2010 4:16 PM
metsmax
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gin

a very fair comment - and I think examples of my conviction based on looking at game results that the boundary cases are where the engine most often fails - boundaries in settings and also probably other boundary cases that I am not enough of a programmer to guess at

as you say, that isnt a randomness defect, but rather a known - or at least suspected - weakness in the SIM

I think there are things one can do in gameplanning and roster design to protect against those boundary cases and to take advantage of other weaknesses in the SIM, but I can see it being a downer
1/20/2010 4:36 PM
emy1013
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Two questions. Trevor, if you think the game is THAT messed up and WIS refuses to acknowledge the fact, why do you continue to waste your time and money on it? Serious question.

Also, did Seble really get "gagged" a few years back (4-6, like you said)? If so, I'd like you to PROVE IT. It wasn't too much for you to ask for proof from Zach about past HD teams, so I'm asking for proof from you about Seble. Like you told Zach, if he can't produce proof, it never happened.............
1/20/2010 5:44 PM
emy1013
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Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 1/20/2010I'm not going to get into an argument with colonels as that's like talking to a wall, but to set the facts straight:

- I stand by the NBA game and especially the engine, because it's one of the most sophisticated of all of our engines

- There is a handful of users there and one in particular who created a mob mentality of negativity

- I was never "gagged" from any forums. That was my choice to avoid these very conversations that waste everyone's time.

- You've latched onto this "extreme randomness" idea without really knowing what that means.

- This is a simulation of a real life game that does include quite a bit of variance in results from game to game


Seble, from my perspective, you are heads and tails above the previous Admin. I, for one, appreciate your willingness to work WITH the HD community, instead of fighting tooth and nail to protect your "baby" by insisting nothing is wrong.

Long story short, most of us wouldn't know you from some random guy on the street if we saw you, but there is no reason whatsoever to have to justify yourself to us. Keep up the good work!
1/20/2010 6:16 PM
antonsirius
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Quote: Originally posted by emy1013 on 1/20/2010Two questions.  Trevor, if you think the game is THAT messed up and WIS refuses to acknowledge the fact, why do you continue to waste your time and money on it?  Serious question.Also, did Seble really get "gagged" a few years back (4-6, like you said)?  If so, I'd like you to PROVE IT.  It wasn't too much for you to ask for proof from Zach about past HD teams, so I'm asking for proof from you about Seble.  Like you told Zach, if he can't produce proof, it never happened.............

Hmm, who to take at their word... seble or the troll... gosh, that's a tough one.
1/20/2010 6:33 PM
emy1013
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Nice to see you pop in from time to time Anton. I always enjoyed reading your posts when you and Swamp were debating politics, etc. Even if the debates WERE seriously one-sided!
1/20/2010 6:46 PM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 1/20/2010
Two questions. Trevor, if you think the game is THAT messed up and WIS refuses to acknowledge the fact, why do you continue to waste your time and money on it? Serious question. I do really enjoy it and the people that play it...a buddy of mine and I kind of root for each other, its just a cool atmosphere and the in thing for me/us right now.

Also, did Seble really get "gagged" a few years back (4-6, like you said)? If so, I'd like you to PROVE IT. I was waiting for this to come up lol. It wasn't too much for you to ask for proof from Zach about past HD teams, so I'm asking for proof from you about Seble. Like you told Zach, if he can't produce proof, it never happened............. You can either believe me or not...but I'm sure there are a few guys on the NBA sim forums that remember and can substantiate my claim. If you don't want to believe me because there isn't proof, I can understand.

1/21/2010 9:59 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 1/20/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 1/20/2010
I'm not going to get into an argument with colonels as that's like talking to a wall, but to set the facts straight:

- I stand by the NBA game and especially the engine, because it's one of the most sophisticated of all of our engines

- There is a handful of users there and one in particular who created a mob mentality of negativity

- I was never "gagged" from any forums. That was my choice to avoid these very conversations that waste everyone's time.

- You've latched onto this "extreme randomness" idea without really knowing what that means.

- This is a simulation of a real life game that does include quite a bit of variance in results from game to game.



Seble, from my perspective, you are heads and tails above the previous Admin. I, for one, appreciate your willingness to work WITH the HD community, instead of fighting tooth and nail to protect your "baby" by insisting nothing is wrong. I can't believe what I'm reading because what I know of seble, this is seble to a T. Which admin was before seble, admin, Tarek Kamil? Or was there someone in between TK's firing?

Long story short, most of us wouldn't know you from some random guy on the street if we saw you, but there is no reason whatsoever to have to justify yourself to us. Keep up the good work!
1/21/2010 10:02 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By antonsirius on 1/20/2010
Quote: Originally posted by emy1013 on 1/20/2010
Two questions. Trevor, if you think the game is THAT messed up and WIS refuses to acknowledge the fact, why do you continue to waste your time and money on it? Serious question.

Also, did Seble really get "gagged" a few years back (4-6, like you said)? If so, I'd like you to PROVE IT. It wasn't too much for you to ask for proof from Zach about past HD teams, so I'm asking for proof from you about Seble. Like you told Zach, if he can't produce proof, it never happened.............

Hmm, who to take at their word... seble or the troll... gosh, that's a tough one
Why would I make up something like that? There's enough visible stuff in the NBA sim forums about seble, why would I make up something that happened 4 to 6 years ago when there's already plenty of evidence that shows what seble is/was?
1/21/2010 10:04 AM
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