What am I missing here? Topic

ericbfor3
Posts: 54 (0)
Hall of Famer
64
Prospect
I have read in several posts people mentioning how in D2 teams with RPI's in 60's and whatnot, get into the NT with at large bids because there "are fewer teams and conferences", and I have myself seen a team with an RPI or 71 or so get in last year in D2 . However, the fewer team logic / arguement makes no sense to me (in regard to the at-large teams getting in at the bottom) vs D3. It is still the best at large teams out of a pool of 200 or so teams vs. 300 teams, meaning it should still be the best at large teams regardless of the amount of teams in the Division. Does that make sense to you all, or am i just missing something completely here?
3/12/2010 12:19 AM
Weena
Posts: 579 (0)
Hall of Famer
227 1 1 1 531 1 27
Rookie
Fewer conferences means fewer automatic bids. So with less bids, more at-large teams get in.
3/12/2010 12:30 AM
ericbfor3
Posts: 54 (0)
Hall of Famer
64
Prospect
Ok, I get that, but it still should be the "best" teams up to the 64 spots are filled, right? Meaning that whether there are 20 conferences or 24, 200 teams or 300 teams, once the auto's are dished out, it should then be the next BEST 30-40 plus teams. So my point is, that having 200 teams as opposed to 300 teams is irrelevant since it is only 64 that make the NT.
3/12/2010 1:43 AM
doomey
Posts: 141 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 329 12 13
Prospect
Was that 71 an at-large? Also remember that RPI isn't the only factor used.
3/12/2010 1:58 AM
acn24
Posts: 1020 (0)
Hall of Famer
260 357 172
Rookie
Quote: Originally Posted By doomey on 3/12/2010Was that 71 an at-large? Also remember that RPI isn't the only factor used
Also remember that no team with a losing record can get an at-large berth, so if there are any 14-15 teams with good RPIs, they are playing in the PI.

And as doomey said, RPI isn't the only factor, 22-7, lost in CT finals, RPI 71 is a much stronger resume that 15-12, lost only CT game, RPI 62.
3/12/2010 6:06 AM
ericbfor3
Posts: 54 (0)
Hall of Famer
64
Prospect
Oh, I totally agree that RPI isn't the only factor, although when it comes to a computer generated game, it has to be considered a HUGE part of it.

Bottom line - I still don't bye the argument that because of few teams in D2, higher, weaker at large teams will make the NT.
3/12/2010 12:20 PM
zhawks
Posts: 881 (0)
Hall of Famer
208 66 38
Pro
Quote: Originally Posted By ericbfor3 on 3/12/2010
Oh, I totally agree that RPI isn't the only factor, although when it comes to a computer generated game, it has to be considered a HUGE part of it.

Bottom line - I still don't bye the argument that because of few teams in D2, higher, weaker at large teams will make the NT.

You aren't understanding the argument at all. You are making it way too complicated.

Less conferences means less auto-bids which means more at-large bids available.
3/12/2010 12:34 PM
kujayhawk
Posts: 396 (0)
Hall of Famer
203 89
Rookie
Here's (part of) a real example:

Conference finals are tonight in Allen and I went and looked to see how our conference's bubble teams were looking in making the D3 NT.

By my guesstimate, there are 8 games tonight in other conferences that have head-to-head matchups of teams that would otherwise have no shot at the NT.

There are an additional 12 games tonight that involve a team that should be "in" and a team that should be "out".

I'm making the "in" "out" guesses, but the RPI's are such that all but two of those 20 guesses are very simple to make.

That means that in only 12 of the conferences are there CT finals where both teams are dancing either way.

With 32 conferences, there are only 32 at large bids. So as things stand right now, 8 of the 32 CT bids are going to teams that would otherwise not make it. Instead of getting the 64 best teams, we are getting the best 56 + 8 others.

And for every one of those upsets tonight in the 12 games where an "out" beats an "in", you are lowering the number from 64 best to 56 best to ??? best. If all 12 games tonight were upsets, you'd have the top 44 teams make the NT + 20 others that only made it by CT victory.
3/12/2010 12:37 PM
emy1013
Posts: 2731 (0)
Hall of Famer
898
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By kujayhawk on 3/12/2010Here's (part of) a real example:

Conference finals are tonight in Allen and I went and looked to see how our conference's bubble teams were looking in making the D3 NT.

By my guesstimate, there are 8 games tonight in other conferences that have head-to-head matchups of teams that would otherwise have no shot at the NT.

There are an additional 12 games tonight that involve a team that should be "in" and a team that should be "out".

I'm making the "in" "out" guesses, but the RPI's are such that all but two of those 20 guesses are very simple to make.

That means that in only 12 of the conferences are there CT finals where both teams are dancing either way.

With 32 conferences, there are only 32 at large bids. So as things stand right now, 8 of the 32 CT bids are going to teams that would otherwise not make it. Instead of getting the 64 best teams, we are getting the best 56 + 8 others.

And for every one of those upsets tonight in the 12 games where an "out" beats an "in", you are lowering the number from 64 best to 56 best to ??? best. If all 12 games tonight were upsets, you'd have the top 44 teams make the NT + 20 others that only made it by CT victory


Nice explanation.
3/12/2010 12:43 PM
acn24
Posts: 1020 (0)
Hall of Famer
260 357 172
Rookie
Quote: Originally Posted By ericbfor3 on 3/12/2010
Oh, I totally agree that RPI isn't the only factor, although when it comes to a computer generated game, it has to be considered a HUGE part of it.

Bottom line - I still don't bye the argument that because of few teams in D2, higher, weaker at large teams will make the NT.

Sure they will. DI has 27 conferences, 37 at-larges. DII has 23 conferences, 41 at-larges. DIII has 32 conferences, 32 at-larges.

The fewer the number of conferences the fewer the number of NT teams that don't really deserve to be there, and who get in only because they win their CT.

For some numbers, I just went through Allen, which is playing CT Title games tonight. I only used current RPI, and obviously there are will be some changes after the conf. title games tonight, but:

DI has 10 conferences where the CT winner WILL have an RPI >60 and 7 conferences where the CT winner MIGHT have an RPI>60.

DII has 2 conferences where the CT winner WILL have an RPI >60 and 7 conferences where the CT winner MIGHT have an RPI>60.

DIII has 8 conferences where the CT winner WILL have an RPI >60 and 11 conferences where the CT winner MIGHT have an RPI>60.

DI will have 10-17 teams in the NT only because they won the CT.
DII will have between 2-9 teams in the NT only because they won the CT.
DIII will have between 8-19 teams in the NT only because they won the CT.

It is pretty clear that lower bubble teams have a much better chance at an at-large in DII.
3/12/2010 12:48 PM
ericbfor3
Posts: 54 (0)
Hall of Famer
64
Prospect
Thanks for your imput and perspective guys. However, I think we are talking apples and oranges here.....lol. That or I'm an idiot (possible).
3/12/2010 5:50 PM
dalter
Posts: 71 (0)
All Star
25
Prospect
Eric, it's really simple.

Take two identical, 50 rpi teams -- on at DII and the other at DIII.

Because more of the 64 spots are taken up by automatic conference bids in DIII, there are fewer at-large spot in DIII. So a 50 rpi DII team has a better chance of receiving an at-large bid then the 50 rpi DIII team.

It's very straightforward.
3/12/2010 6:45 PM
What am I missing here? Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.