I've just taken over a Triangle/M2M team for the first time ever.  Now, my first instinct is to switch to Motion/Press or Flex/Press and recruit high SPD, ATH, DEF, and STAM at the cost of cores... but what if I stick with Triangle/M2M?...


So DEF is a priority, that I know.  And you need high passing, and a stud post player, right?...


But what do you give up to focus on BH/PASS and DEF... SPD/ATH?  How is it that you go about building an elite Triangle/M2M team?

I did this in Knight about three seasons ago.  I went with high spd/def for guards and high ath/reb/def for defense.  My second year I had 8 of my own players on that team and got a 2 seed, but lost in the 2nd round.  I moved up to a similar d2 team this year, but I got my friend to take MSE.  He's doing pretty well in his first year.  He just got a 9 seed and hopefully he'll make a run.  Here's the team: www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx ...From what i've seen in the new engine, high passing in edit: Triangle (don't know why I wrote zone) does amazing things.  I'd say getting great defenders and sacrificing scoring ability for passing is a way to build a very good triangle m2m team.

YOu mean high passing in Triangle?

 

P is more important than BH; like Tkimble said, the traingle eliminates the need for high ath, spd, and bh but puts great emphasis on passing (this coming from an avid Laker fan who's watched it run for years)

USC, I'm a longtime Chicago native whose youth lined up with the height of the Bulls' dynasty years, so I know what you mean.  But what about in HD?

I've been switching from motion/man to triangle/zone with most of my teams. When I ran Motion my distribution was pretty even. With Triangle I tend to set it as follows:

Fr=0, So=1, Jr=2, Sr=4, and really it's based on seasons played to account for ineligibles/transfers/juco etc.

Regardless of who I've recruited my teams end up with seniors some of which are perimeter players and some are paint squatters, and get this, there are usually 3 seniors ... a triangle!

Posted by cornfused on 7/29/2010 10:05:00 PM (view original):
USC, I'm a longtime Chicago native whose youth lined up with the height of the Bulls' dynasty years, so I know what you mean.  But what about in HD?

Everything I know about running the triangle in HD I learned from umpikes (from Southern in Allen), and I would suggest asking him b/c he can explain everything much better than I can

I think you need high perimeter, high passing guards more than anything else in the triangle offense.  Check out the career stats for Eugene Tompkins on my Rochester team.  I think right now it's easier to recruit for the zone than M2M, but an elite zone defense will never be able to shut down opponents like an elite man defense can.  You can still do well enough with 4 good defenders, though.

I only run triangle offenses and prefer it over the other options. I just like it better, no other specific reason. From a Division 2 perspective, PG/SG need high spd(above 70), ath is a bonus. They also need high Pass(above 60) and preferably high BH. They need decent DEF minimum above 40 preferably 60-70. PER is a bonus for PG, but your SG needs above 60 minimum for preferably starter and backup, but at least one or the other. SF generally needs a good combo of ath/spd, but if I can find a high spd/low ath and good in the other categories, I usually take them. For SF's BH/Pass preferably nothing lower than 40/40. For rebounding, nothing lower than 30, and I usually look for PER SF's as opposed to LP SF's, but either or will do fine (For the LP SF you need higher ATH though) and nothing below 50 preferably above 70 if you can manage. For PF/C ATH minimum above 40, Spd is a bonus. REB should be minimum above 55 and preferably 70-80+. Def should be above 40 and BLK should be above 60. LP doesn't have to be high for both the PF/C, but at least one of them should be above 60. As far as Per/Bh/Pas, they are all bonuses for bigs, but if you can find passers with a rating above 20-30 you will be in good shape. I think if you shoot for the high end but don't go lower than the minimum on the aforementioned categories, you will be fine. These ratings minimums should work with any offense or defense, but they work for sure in the triangle. Sticking with these rating principals you will be on the right track. After that, it will be up to your coaching. I understand it is harder to find these type of players in the new engine, but it is not impossible. If I were you, I would stick with triangle/man, it is fun to coach a team with those bases imo. I used to run triangle man/press with triangle/press in strong years. I will now probably stick with triangle/man from now on. We lost five players from a NC team and managed to make the Sweet 16 with a total of 4 upperclassmen (8 players from the new engine....). Not bad imo.

That's a pretty detailed answer there, and since pitino's at DII you might be best off just listening to him.  As a guy who's run only triangle the last 20 or so seasons, and only at a DI BCS school, I can just add my thoughts, observational though they might be:
1) The prevailing wisdom is ath doesn't matter with triangle, but keep in mind -- that's only for scoring.  And though it's possibly less important than for other offenses, it's still very important -- some years my main post player is high ath/low LP, other times it's the opposite, and both types seem to do about equally as well.  And ath is still huge for post players' rebounding, defense and SB, so don't fall into the trap of thinking it's something you can overlook.
2) The wisdom is that PE is key for guards.  However, my experience is that speed trumps PE every time.  Year after year I've got some PG with great speed and average PE who ends up being one of my top 3 scorers and shooting >40% from 3.  Speed, of course, is what matters for guards on D, too.  If I had to pick the most important thing about building a triangle/man team, it would be: make sure you have outstanding speed at both PG and SG no matter what.
3) SFs should be able to shoot from outside.  Despite what I said about PE in guards, I value PE very highly in SFs, since they have to be able to hit the jumper when they're in the triangle.  I would always prefer to set my SFs at 0 against M2M and press, and +1 against zone, and it's tough to do that with a marginal outside shooter.  It's also nice if he has some BH too -- I'm willing to accept a lower passing in an SF who I want to be a scorer if I know he can handle the ball.  

Don't forget -- speed and ath are the only two things that matter on both ends of the court.  People may not like it, but fast and athletic will hide a lot of flaws in the cores.  I don't think you can ever be elite in Triangle/M2M without that.

How important is passing for the big in the triangle. I know you would ideally want you low post scorer, say the 5, to be a good passer, but what about the 4? Specifically, how low in Passing would you take a bigman, if he isn't asked to be the low post scorer in the triangle?

with these existing players:

Name	Yr.	Pos.	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	FT	TOT
David Perry	Sr.	C	46	32	74	46	40	68	18	4	23	69	78	71	D	569
Marc Robson	Sr.	SF	41	49	25	24	25	60	39	56	61	41	76	22	C	519
Benjamin Jones	Jr.	PG	49	38	15	48	24	18	39	49	59	15	76	63	C	493
Terence Kelleher	So.	C	47	29	54	18	62	39	15	12	38	53	71	40	C-	478
Andrew Gilbert	Sr.	PG	29	61	7	39	5	13	24	63	69	23	81	50	B+	464
Michael McKoan	Jr.	C	57	25	62	33	40	56	19	13	25	38	69	21	C	458
Nick Nieto	Jr.	SG	60	38	21	8	4	9	60	41	71	27	79	13	C-	431

and these new recruits

Name	Pos.	GPA	FG%	FT%	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	TOT
Marvin Courter	C	2.30	36.4	66.7	31	18	72	7	33	57	2	3	33	76	67	76	475
Steve Hughes	SG	2.41	70.0	66.1	8	45	12	16	8	47	62	37	30	42	72	62	441
Stanley Theriault	PG	3.20	0.0	0.0	35	46	16	51	18	25	35	37	57	37	77	37	471
Jon White	SG	2.51	57.5	68.5	36	48	9	39	1	23	72	61	47	32	49	45	462

How would you set the team up for triangle?