A new (?) progressive idea - "time traveling rookies"

The basic concept for my "time traveling rookies" (TTR) progressive idea was that the league would start in 1901, and incorporate the players of that time with greats from other eras. The idea was inspired by the OTAT league, which has that same basic intent, but executes it differently than I want to with the TTR.

The OTAT started with 1901, and for each season's draft, they have a large crop of future rookies - each of them either a hall of famer, an all-star, or other consistent long-term player. The lists were pre-made before they started their first season and gives them a large crop each year through 1910. I joined them mid-stream, before the 1906 season. I love the basic idea, but the one imperfection in my opinion is that with so many star players entering the league so fast, just about everyone's got what looks like an all-time all-star lineup; and while a good amount of dead-ball era pitchers fill the league's pitching staffs, starting offensive players from the '00s are relatively far and few between, except for a handful of AS/HOF level players.

That got me thinking about how to modify the OTAT idea in a way that would slow down the flow of "all-time" players (the AT) and encourage greater use of the "old-timer" players (OT). What I came up with was the time-traveling rookies.

The league would be initiated with a draft that included the1901 players, as well as any/all first-year players from three other seasons. Each year subsequent, you would have four seasons worth of rookies to select from in the draft. The time traveling rookies from the future would come from six different decades (the 30s through the 80s) and it would take 20 progressive seasons to rotate through every year of those decades.

Starting in 1901 again is a key component. One of my favorite things about the OTAT is seeing how deadball era pitching and parks change players from different later eras. Big sluggers still hit home runs, but not at the same frequency. Having a big bat from the 30s or the 50s in the middle of your lineup is still extremely valuable, but guys whose only offensive plus is hitting the longball are much less productive than they would be in friendlier parks with more era-appropriate pitching. Another interesting aspect of this set up is that you can put a better overall defensive team behind these early 20th century pitchers. And of course, you can compliment the best pitching of that era with greats from the future as well (I did very well with my rotation of '06 Ed Walsh and Fred Beebe with Don Sutton and Mike Cuellar from '66). I think the combination makes for a great, competitive, quality mix of players.

From there, I came up with two ways of approaching it. The first I had posted in the classifieds for over a month and a half and couldn't get beyond seven owners. When I gave up on that, I proposed the second idea, which after well over 100 views in a week only had one taker.

So, obviously, right now the time is not ripe for me to try and launch it in either format, but I still am convinced that it's a winner of an idea. In the interest of keeping it alive so that perhaps it can be successfully re-introduced later, I want to lay out the details of it here in this SimLeague baseball forum and hopefully get some feedback so it can be tweaked to perfection before that time.

In the next couple of posts I will outline the two formats, then open the discussion up to suggestions and questions

Proposal 1 - original TTR

12 or 16 team league (16 would be preferred)  -  use real life ballparks and traditional team names (pick your park/team when you sign up, list is in the next post).

Our first draft will include all 1901 players as well as first year players from 1931, 1951, and 1971. In 1902, we'll add rookies from 1942, 1962, and 1982. In 1903, we'll use 1933, 1953, and 1973, and so on.

First year players are determined by their first season in the WIS database. An available player list will be posted before each draft.

By using this method, in 20 seasons, we would have included rookies from every year from 1930 through 1989:

Season - rookie years
1901 - 1931, 1951, 1971
1902 - 1942, 1962, 1982
1903-  1933, 1953, 1973
1904 - 1944, 1964, 1984
1905 - 1935, 1955, 1975
1906 - 1946, 1966, 1986
1907 - 1937, 1957, 1977
1908 - 1948, 1968, 1988
1909 - 1938, 1958, 1979
1910 - 1940, 1960, 1980

1911 - 1941, 1961, 1981
1912 - 1932, 1952, 1972
1913 - 1943, 1963, 1983
1914 - 1934, 1954, 1974
1915 - 1945, 1965, 1985
1916 - 1936, 1956, 1976
1917 - 1947, 1967, 1987
1918 - 1938, 1958, 1978
1919 - 1949, 1969, 1989
1920 - 1930, 1950, 1970

Planning out over 20 seasons is pretty ambitious, but you never know, and I think that adding three years worth of rookies each season will create a good balance and not just quickly become just another all-star league.

Some other details:

AAA: Every team will draft two extra players in a 26th round for their AAA - one hitter and one pitcher.

No salary cap.

No DH

No WW

For the initial draft, order will be random. Order will be serpentine (1-24, 24-1, 1-24,,etc.)

Future draft orders will be based on w-l record with a minimum of 30 wins by the 120 game mark.

No limits on the number of keepers and cuts you can have each season.

I already compiled a complete list of available players for the 1901 draft, which you can find HERE.

Available ballparks

AL

American League Park I (Washington Senators)
Bennett Park (Detroit Tigers)
Huntington Ave. Baseball Grounds (Boston Red Sox)
League Park I (Cleveland Indians)
Lloyd Street Grounds (Milwaukee Brewers) (moving to St. Louis in 1902 to become the Browns)
South Side Park (Chicago White Sox)
Oriole Park (Baltimore Orioles) (moving to New York to become 1903 to become the Yankees)
Columbia Park (Philadelphia Athletics)

NL

Baker Bowl (Philadelphia Phillies)
Robison Field (St. Louis Cardinals)
South End Grounds III (Boston Braves)
Washington Park III (Brooklyn Dodgers)
Exposition Park (Pittsburgh Pirates)
Polo Grounds IV (New York Giants)
League Park II (Cincinnati Reds)
West Side Grounds (Chicago Cubs)

Proposal 2 - franchise based

We start with the "original 16" franchises in 1901.

Once we have 16 owners signed up, we hold a one round franchise draft for everyone to pick their teams.

Once that is done, owners post a keeper list made up of 15 players - using anyone on their team from 1901, as well as up to four rookies from your franchise's history. For the 1901 draft, we will be including rookies from 1941, 1961, and 1981. I've put together the lists for this first draft and will be posting them here in the sign up thread so everyone can see what they would have to choose from.

After that, we have a 10 round draft from a pool of players that would include all "cut" 1901 players, as well as all unselected players from those 1941/61/81 rookie pools. In addition, players who were rookies with expansion era clubs in 1961 and 1981 will also be added to the draft pool.

The result should be teams that have a mix of players who actually played for your franchises at different points in history.

Some additional details:

In the 1902 draft, we would do the same thing, 15 player keeper list (based on your 1901 roster, not your franchise's real-life 1902 roster), which can include up to four franchise rookies from 1952, 1972, and 1992. In '03, we use 1943, 1963, 1983, and so on through the seasons.

No salary cap, no WW

Just two below average AAA per team (primarily to give teams flexibility when trading)

DH in AL only.

Teams will play in their modern day (2011) ballparks and go by their modern names - so if you take, for example, the 1901 Brooklyn Superbas, who became the Brooklyn Dodgers, they would play in Dodger Stadium and be known as the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Alignment will be traditional AL/NL with four divisions. There will not be inter-league play.

Future draft order can be based on w-l record at the 120 game mark with a 30-win minimum, but I am open to suggestion for a draft formula if there's a consensus among owners to go in that direction.

The original classifieds post also includes a complete list of available time traveling rookies by team, see it HERE.

Alignment/franchise affiliations

AL EAST

Baltimore Orioles (1901 Milwaukee Brewers - future St. Louis Browns)  - Camden Yards
Boston Red Sox (1901 Boston Americans) - Fenway Park
Cleveland Indians (1901 Cleveland Blues) - Jacobs Field
New York Yankees (1901 Baltimore Orioles) - Yankee Stadium III

AL WEST

Chicago White Sox (1901 Chicago White Sox) - U.S. Cellular Field
Detroit Tigers (1901 Detroit Tigers) - Comerica Park
Minnesota Twins (1901 Washington Senators) - Target Field
Oakland Athletics (1901 Philadelphia A's) - Oakland Coliseum

NL EAST

Atlanta Braves (1901 Boston Beaneaters) - Turner Field
Cincinnati Reds (1901 Cincinnati Reds) - The Great American Ballpark
Philadelphia Phillies (1901 Philadelphia Phillies) - Citizens Bank Park
Pittsburgh Pirates (1901 Pittsburgh Pirates) - PNC Park

NL WEST

Chicago Cubs (1901 Chicago Orphans) - Wrigley Field
Los Angeles Dodgers (1901 Brooklyn Superbas) - Dodger Stadium
San Francisco Giants (1901 New York Giants) - AT&T Park
St. Louis Cardinals (1901 St. Louis Cardinals) - Busch Stadium III

The aspect of the second idea that places it in contemporary ballparks can be eliminated of course, and the teams could  be placed in their 1901 ballparks like I had envisioned it for the original idea. DH in AL only can be tossed out too.

Conversely, the modern park element could be adapted for the original idea too if that seems more appealing.

Open to what ever tinkering could make one version or the other (or a hybrid) doable.

Any thoughts?

I actually like #2 a lot.  I would prefer flexibility with ballpark and team name (any historical for either), but not a big deal.  Maybe add some sort of minimum # of deadballers to the carryover so you don't end up with an all-star team, which is what you are trying to avoid in the first place.  Do any leagues use a carryover salary cap? That would be an interesting concept if you had to make some tough cuts every year instead of just carrying over your best players.  

I'm not in love with either. I think that #2 could be really unbalanced based on franchises (the Sox get Ruth, Williams, Speaker, Boggs and the Reds get Bench and I can't even think of 3 other guys)... but maybe teams that are good in 1901 are bad in terms of rookies. 

I like #1 better, but it probably still turns into an all-star team pretty quickly. And I know 20 seasons is a lot, but it's not forever, and once you get past 12 or so, finding any replacement owners will be just about impossible without a plan to go past 20.

I have been toying with ideas like this myself for a while, but I'd rather go the other way if it was me. Guys like Billy Hamilton and Jesse Burkett get screwed in progressives. Something like a 1940s progressive (or even a 90s progressive) with each team having 2 guys from the 1800s might be more fun. But I've tried that idea before and never gotten it off the ground.