Recovery from "missed" development time Topic

dedelman
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1)  Say a guy suffers a major injury when he is very young, in his first full pro season.  In peoples' experience, does he have accelerated development in the following season(s) to "make up for lost time?"  I think I have seen this a couple of times.

2)  Same song, second verse-- what if the guy loses a season of development to terrible coaching?  I just looked at trading for a prospect, a very high draft pick out of HS, who had a terrible fielding coach in his first full season and had zero improvement in glove and arm accuracy.  If he gets a solid FC in his second full season, will he improve by leaps and bounds to make up the distance between current and projected ratings?  This I have not noticed...
1/22/2012 11:42 AM
MikeT23
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1.  I seem to think so.  But I also have 20m in medical.

2.  Best example I have:  Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Braden Burks   No developement for a couple of seasons(glove) due to poor coaching.  I took the team in S4.   He made some pretty big gains with a good FC.  Was he all he could be?  Probably not but he made some big jumps when I wouldn't have expected it.
1/22/2012 11:51 AM
kahrtmen
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Wow, still getting +2 glove 10 seasons into his career.  I'd say he made up for it.
1/23/2012 5:31 PM
bigal888
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this line of reasoning seems to suggest then, with the proper environment, players will continually develop towards some theoretical limit regardless of past problems.  Which goes against what I thought I understood; that past problems could forever alter the player's ability to develop to that limit - ie every negative effect on a players development is permanent and will forever keep them from reaching the maximum development possible.
1/24/2012 1:45 PM
tecwrg
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My observation over time is that the gap between current value and the "true" projection of a particular rating is one of the factors in progression.  So a young player (with good makeup, good coaching, and all the other factors that go into development) who is 20 points away (for example) from his projection will appear to take bigger steps forward with each development cycle than he would if he were only, say, 5 points away.  Which also explains why development appears to slow down over time.  That, and age.

So while "past problems" can set a player back, it's not necessarily a done deal that he's ruined . . . but depending on how severely he was damaged, he may never completely recover all thosed missed development points.  He may (or probably will) get some back, but not all.

1/24/2012 1:59 PM
bigal888
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so the question is, is it possible to bring players "back from the dead" so to speak?  Given perfect conditions, are multiple, full season long injuries really career ending? or is it possible to come back from that if everything was perfect?  I think tec, you are saying that to a certain extent it is possible but not 100%.
1/24/2012 2:28 PM
kcden
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Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Russ Everhart  is an interesting case study for this discussion.  
It was actually bigal that did not sign him as a 22 Y/O draft pick.  I picked him up in FA the following year (at a total cost of about 16 mill, for his contract) because he (based on my 20 mill College scouting from the previous year) looked like a pretty good hitting prospect (I looked at it as an extra IFA signing). 
Without looking back at my spreadsheet of the Season 19 draft in Cooperstown, I think he appears to be approaching what my College scouting projections said he would be, in spite of losing that entire Rookie league season and the off-season in development.
1/24/2012 2:45 PM
MikeT23
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Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Jalal Darling will be a good study about the long-term injury.  28 y/o pitcher who lost 7 overall last season.   Regained 3 before the season ended last season.    If he regains anything this year, in his 8th year, I think you have an answer.
1/24/2012 3:15 PM
bigal888
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Posted by kcden on 1/24/2012 2:45:00 PM (view original):
Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Russ Everhart  is an interesting case study for this discussion.  
It was actually bigal that did not sign him as a 22 Y/O draft pick.  I picked him up in FA the following year (at a total cost of about 16 mill, for his contract) because he (based on my 20 mill College scouting from the previous year) looked like a pretty good hitting prospect (I looked at it as an extra IFA signing). 
Without looking back at my spreadsheet of the Season 19 draft in Cooperstown, I think he appears to be approaching what my College scouting projections said he would be, in spite of losing that entire Rookie league season and the off-season in development.
I still kick myself for not realizing he would be a FA the next season.  I had to choose between my two picks and he got left out...now I want him back. 

But yes, he is good case study for this...
1/24/2012 3:55 PM
MikeT23
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Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Clint Robinson   Another guy from the same team as Burks.   He was improving, but not fast enough, until I pulled the plug.

As you can see, Robinson was actually losing glove points. 
1/24/2012 4:06 PM (edited)
kcden
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Posted by bigal888 on 1/24/2012 3:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kcden on 1/24/2012 2:45:00 PM (view original):
Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Russ Everhart  is an interesting case study for this discussion.  
It was actually bigal that did not sign him as a 22 Y/O draft pick.  I picked him up in FA the following year (at a total cost of about 16 mill, for his contract) because he (based on my 20 mill College scouting from the previous year) looked like a pretty good hitting prospect (I looked at it as an extra IFA signing). 
Without looking back at my spreadsheet of the Season 19 draft in Cooperstown, I think he appears to be approaching what my College scouting projections said he would be, in spite of losing that entire Rookie league season and the off-season in development.
I still kick myself for not realizing he would be a FA the next season.  I had to choose between my two picks and he got left out...now I want him back. 

But yes, he is good case study for this...
I'm pretty sure I had him one slot behind Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Ben Butler, who I ended up drafting 5th overall in the Season 18 draft (I was wrong about the season...)
Also interesting to note that Everhart does not have a Season 19 ratings line because of how all of that went down, so I don't really know exactly what he looked like when I picked him up.
1/24/2012 4:32 PM
new
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There appears to be a limit as to how much ratings can recover.  ThisGuy lost 10 points of Glove when I failed to sign a fielding instructor (dont let that happen to you).  Anyway, 3 seasons later and he is barely better off than before the negative coaching.  Its only a guess but I think he lost 5ish points due to that mistake.  Although, maybe over the next X season he will slowly get it back.     
1/24/2012 4:40 PM
Recovery from "missed" development time Topic
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