If you are in Fingers world, please do not comment on this thread. I want opinions that do not revolve around the particular owner personalities or particular players involved in this trade.

A trade in a private world is proposed and accepted Friday morning around 10. It is vetoed by exactly 10 owners, not including me, although I felt it was a marginal call. Essentially the same trade is resubmitted Saturday at about 3. Assuming that I was correct to not veto the trade the first time, should I:

A) sit tight, because if 10 owners don't like it, it's up to them to be vigilant enough to veto it again even on the weekend?

B) Veto it, because if the world doesn't want a trade once you shouldn't submit it over and over again?

C) Veto it and warn the participating franchises that a 3rd similar effort will result in their not being permitted to roll over to next season, because otherwise they can keep doing this every day, wasting everyone's time and energy?

d) Other that I haven't considered?

Was it exactly the same?

Quote: Originally Posted By dedelman on 9/26/2009

If you are in Fingers world, please do not comment on this thread. I want opinions that do not revolve around the particular owner personalities or particular players involved in this trade.

A trade in a private world is proposed and accepted Friday morning around 10. It is vetoed by exactly 10 owners, not including me, although I felt it was a marginal call. Essentially the same trade is resubmitted Saturday at about 3. Assuming that I was correct to not veto the trade the first time, should I:

A) sit tight, because if 10 owners don't like it, it's up to them to be vigilant enough to veto it again even on the weekend?

B) Veto it, because if the world doesn't want a trade once you shouldn't submit it over and over again?

C) Veto it and warn the participating franchises that a 3rd similar effort will result in their not being permitted to roll over to next season, because otherwise they can keep doing this every day, wasting everyone's time and energy?

d) Other that I haven't considered?

What does this mean? If a trade is vetoed by exactly 10 owners, it would make sense to me that the owners involved would want to tweak it to appease at least one owner, thereby allowing it to make it through, but keep as close to the orginal deal as possible.

I would go D) one you haven't considered, and that is evaluate the second trade on its own merits. If you would veto it normally, do so. If you wouldn't (and judging from the rest of your question, you wouldn't) then let it go.

There was a non-prospect thrown in for whatever reason; that non-prospect was changed to a different non-prospect, but everything else was the same. It is functionally the same trade.

I'd go with the D) I suggested before.

Perhaps the new non-prospect is a little better than the old non-prospect (or worse, depending on which side people felt was getting too good of a deal) and so one of the 10 veto people now think it is OK to go through. Unless you think the new deal is worthy of a veto on its own, I'd hold off on the veto.

Out of curiosity, was there a discussion in the World Chat? Did all 10 owners who vetoed think it was an unfair trade for the same reason?

Non-prospect is a non-prospect. Can't call it a different car by changing the bumper stickers.

Quote: Originally Posted By gumbercules on 9/26/2009

Non-prospect is a non-prospect. Can't call it a different car by changing the bumper stickers.

Except this isn't always true.

I've often been offered players that are considered borderline ML prospects by their owners who, in my franchise, are people I consider non-prospects because they wouldn't play for me. Likewise, I've offered players I consider "prospects" - for example, the .180 BA great glove SS that I'd use as a defensive replacement - and been told by other owners that they'd never use a ML roster spot on a player who hits that poorly.

What dedelman considers a non-prospect may not be the same as all 10 of the owners who vetoed the trade do. More importantly, in my mind, it may not be the same as the owners involved in the trade.

zb-- I understand what you're getting at here-- the first player was a 22nd round pick and the new player is a 6th rounder who hasn't improved much in the last two seasons and has control and splits all in the 40's.

gumbercules, if you are getting my point, what should I do?

The owners will decide. If 10 people veto it again then the upgrade was not enough. If the other owners who did not veto get tired of them passing through the same trade then they can veto to send a message. I dont think the commissioner needs to do anything in this situation, no one appears to be cheating. In this situation you should consider yourself one owner and decide if you wish to veto, jumping in and making a command decision would be more of a control issue in my mind.

Quote: Originally Posted By dedelman on 9/26/2009
A trade in a private world is proposed and accepted Friday morning around 10. It is vetoed by exactly 10 owners, not including me, although I felt it was a marginal call.

Just out of curiosity, how does one know that "exactly 10 owners" vetoed a trade? Doesn't the trade get vetoed as soon as the number of vetos reaches 10, so that every trade that gets vetoed is vetoed by "exactly 10 owners?" Thanks.

No. All vetoes will be listed, not just the first 10.

Quote: Originally Posted By plague on 9/26/2009The owners will decide. If 10 people veto it again then the upgrade was not enough. If the other owners who did not veto get tired of them passing through the same trade then they can veto to send a message. I dont think the commissioner needs to do anything in this situation, no one appears to be cheating. In this situation you should consider yourself one owner and decide if you wish to veto, jumping in and making a command decision would be more of a control issue in my mind

I agree with this!

The commissioner's "job" is to do what's best for the league.

I think it's interesting that you didn't veto the deal the first time, and don't plan to veto it the second time.

If this were trade rape of a noob, you'd want to be more aggressive as commish. But if it's "marginal," then I wouldn't do anything. If the league vetoes it again, fine. But if 10 owners don't feel compelled to veto a second (or additional) time, then it's probably isn't worth you fretting over.