Dev Blog *Update* Topic

zhawks
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"Quick note about rankings: the plan at this point is to have them update after each game instead of every two games. It takes away that bit of realism, but it makes things simpler on our end and probably makes you guys happier too.

I may have mentioned this already, but our plan for the rankings is that there will be two components to them. One will be some measure of the talent of a team based on ratings. The other will be performance in games. Early in the season the talent portion will be weighted heavier than performance, but as the season progresses, that balance will shift to performance being the dominant piece. "
10/21/2009 10:45 AM
john_mills
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This sounds good.
10/21/2009 10:59 AM
dalter
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Both the effort and communication are much appreciated, however ...

1. The best thing would be to simply make the rankings window dressing, like they are in real life. IRL, they're used to promote the game and are filled out by coaches' assistants and sportswriters who see a tiny fraction of the teams play and are just following the herd.

2. This would give them more time and resources to devote to other, more important things.
10/21/2009 11:06 AM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 10/21/2009
Both the effort and communication are much appreciated, however ...

1. The best thing would be to simply make the rankings window dressing, like they are in real life. IRL, they're used to promote the game and are filled out by coaches' assistants and sportswriters who see a tiny fraction of the teams play and are just following the herd.

2. This would give them more time and resources to devote to other, more important things.

Like early entries, enhancing the engine, recruiting, job logic...
10/21/2009 11:10 AM
alblack56
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Hopefully, they will eliminate the most irritating part of the rankings..... off days counting as losses. In my conference, a team had 2 consecutive off days and dropped from #2 to #6.
10/21/2009 11:55 AM
mmt0315
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Will "performance" mean straight up wins and losses or will it incorporate SOS?
10/21/2009 12:01 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By alblack56 on 10/21/2009Hopefully, they will eliminate the most irritating part of the rankings..... off days counting as losses. In my conference, a team had 2 consecutive off days and dropped from #2 to #6.
They claimed to do that a long while ago... What is worse now is it doesn't show 'bye' anymore on the rankings page, instead your last two games played. So if you happened to lose in 1 of your last two games and then have back to back byes (as my Illini did last year) the loss compounded over those two off days.
10/21/2009 12:03 PM
oldave
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i must admit that i have been known to complain about the rankings myself, but....

i hope to gawd that seble realizes that "rankings" does not rank as one of the top25 HD issues. heck, i'm not sure if "rankings" would make the alsorecievingvotes of HD issues. and if "rankings" expects to get into the NT of HD issues, it had dang sure better win its CT.



seriously, its just not that important.

yes, i realize it can effect rankings and NT bids. but in the end, i think, there really are not that many ingredious errors in the bid and seeding process. and i can gauruntee you that whatever system you use, there will be some headscratchers and raw deals come NT time. happens in real life too. but, despite some of my rantings to the contrary, i dont think that a bad seed is the end of the world. do deserving teams get out at times? i suppose they do ...although i cannot ever recall a single complaint of this nature. and when it does happen, is it really that big of a deal? obviously it is to the team involved, but often they are actually better off in the PIT where they have a real good chance to go deep, as opposed to the NT where they have a real good chance to be one-and-done.

im not sure how well i can explain this, but, to me, there are two types of complaints: I) complaints about issues where there is a real problem and , at least potentially, a real solution and II) complaints that are more like two guys arguing over which one of thier teams is better.

type II complaints are actually kinda fun and actually (in some ways) make the game more interesting. you could even argue that, as they stimulate interest and discussion, they are actually good for the game.

type I complaints are about issues that need to be fixed (or deserve an explanation why no fix is needed). leaving these type I complaints unresolved is definitely not "good for the game".

"rankings" is as type II as you can get.
10/21/2009 12:41 PM
thewizard2
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This game is losing more and more coaches as the weeks go by. One world, at last check is down to 88 D-3 coaches. I'm wondering if they are purposely trying to sabotage the game, obviously not, but one would think so.

At this point, I'm convinced the new Admin doesn't have a clue.
10/21/2009 12:55 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By thewizard2 on 10/21/2009
This game is losing more and more coaches as the weeks go by. One world, at last check is down to 88 D-3 coaches. I'm wondering if they are purposely trying to sabotage the game, obviously not, but one would think so.

At this point, I'm convinced the new Admin doesn't have a clue.
Pretty strong words from someone who has only been around WIS for a few months and hasn't made it past d3.
10/21/2009 12:57 PM
oldave
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Quote: Originally Posted By alblack56 on 10/21/2009Hopefully, they will eliminate the most irritating part of the rankings..... off days counting as losses. In my conference, a team had 2 consecutive off days and dropped from #2 to #6.


i used to get really ****** over this too, blackie, but once it was explained to me, i really dont have a problem with it. i know it would never happen in real life, but maybe it should?

example:

TeamA and TeamB are both 22-2.

they have played very similar schedules and are very evenly matched. they even split thier regular season series, each winning on thier home court. But, teamB has some minor intangible advantages (slightly better prestige, etc) and as such is ranked #8 whilst teamA is rankled #9

TeamA wins 2 straight games over very good teams (lets say they win at #13 and then versus #6 at home.)

meanwhile, teamB has two straight byes.

So, obviously, when the polls come out, teamA has moved ahead of teamB

but then teamB has two straight wins on the road versus the #1 and #2 teams in the country.

while that is happening, teamA has two straight byes to end the season.

Obviously, teamB moves back in front of teamA.

there you go.
10/21/2009 12:57 PM
oldresorter
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 10/21/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By thewizard2 on 10/21/2009
This game is losing more and more coaches as the weeks go by. One world, at last check is down to 88 D-3 coaches. I'm wondering if they are purposely trying to sabotage the game, obviously not, but one would think so.

At this point, I'm convinced the new Admin doesn't have a clue.
Pretty strong words from someone who has only been around WIS for a few months and hasn't made it past d3
seble does not understand the game as well as tarek (OK - I will come out and say this once, probably not even as well as some of the current coaches), but at this point in the game's maturity, HD needs a fresh set of eyes to take the game to the next level, seble appears to me to be up to the task & he certainly seems to have the right attitude. I think we all need to support him as much as we can, because if the implementation gets hosed up, I would guess another 50% of the users could go by the wayside, not so sure the game would survive that
10/21/2009 1:04 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 10/21/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 10/21/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By thewizard2 on 10/21/2009
This game is losing more and more coaches as the weeks go by. One world, at last check is down to 88 D-3 coaches. I'm wondering if they are purposely trying to sabotage the game, obviously not, but one would think so.

At this point, I'm convinced the new Admin doesn't have a clue.
Pretty strong words from someone who has only been around WIS for a few months and hasn't made it past d3.
seble does not understand the game as well as tarek (OK - I will come out and say this once, probably not even as well as some of the current coaches), but at this point in the game's maturity, HD needs a fresh set of eyes to take the game to the next level, seble appears to me to be up to the task & he certainly seems to have the right attitude. I think we all need to support him as much as we can, because if the implementation gets hosed up, I would guess another 50% of the users could go by the wayside, not so sure the game would survive that
I agree with you there OR but TK not only developed the game he also had more time working on it then seble does. I give seble my full support in moving the game to the next level and let's hope he uses the resouces he has available to him, mainly the many coaches who have been around the game for a long time, those of us that bring ideas to his attention only want what is best for HD.
10/21/2009 1:08 PM
dalter
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I give TK all the credit in the world for being smart enough and capable enough to put together a game like this. It's an endeavor that would be mind-bogglingly impossible for most people. I can't even fathom it.

That said, TK then proceeded to run HD into the ground with poor decisions, poor implementation, poor (non-existent) communication, poor treatment of coaches and a crazy defensiveness any time someone dared criticize his baby.

Time will tell what seble will be able to fix and what he won't, and OR is correct, he doesn't know the game as well as TK. That said, I am encouraged by his attitude, openness and approach. It is a refreshing change from the incredibly poor way TK handled things in his last year or two with HD.

So I definitely stand behind what seble's trying to do and the way he's going about it, and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as well as my support.
10/21/2009 1:31 PM
vandydave
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i have on good authority that the basis for HD is yahtzee.
10/21/2009 2:03 PM
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