I'm still trying to figure out the game engine. Twenty games into my first season I realized LHP/RHP splits were really important. I'm still not sure what each rating determines though.

For instance:

Control- Does this just affect strikes and balls? Or does it also affect the placement of strikes?

Speed- Is a high speed rating more likely to strike out a low contact or low batting eye batter?

Patience- Does this affect pitching at all? Fewer big hits, perhaps?

1st, 2nd, 3rd pitch, etc- I've figured out nobody makes it in the ML without at least a 1st pitch of 70. What numbers are good, average, and bad? 80, 60, and 45? Do pitchers avoid throwing their bad pitches?

(I thought my reliever last year who had 96 control, 65/75 splits, and two pitches 88/73 was good...yet he had an ERA of 5.71)

Also, how important is it to have extra pitches? I had a 3pitch starter for half a season, and he did ok. Was that a fluke?

GB/FB- Does this number have linear outcomes? Or is it a step function? I.e., might 25-75 ratings give similar results whilst outliers produce radically different results?

And...anything else you think I should know!!

	Stamina indicates how many pitches a player can make in a ballgame.
	Control indicates how successful a pitcher is at locating his pitches.
	Effectiveness Versus -Handed Batters determines how the pitcher fares against -handed hitters.
	Effectiveness Versus Right-Handed Batters determines how the pitcher fares against right-handed hitters.
	Velocity determines how fast the player can throw a pitch.
	The Groundball/Flyball rating determines a pitcher's ability to induce a groundball versus a flyball. A rating of 0 would be a pure flyball pitcher.
	The Pitch 1 rating determines the skill with which a player can throw his #1 pitch.
	The Pitch 2 rating determines the skill with which a player can throw his #2 pitch.
	The Pitch 3 rating determines the skill with which a player can throw his #3 pitch.
	The Pitch 4 rating determines the skill with which a player can throw his #4 pitch.
	The Pitch 5 rating determines the skill with which a player can throw his #5 pitch.

Patience plays a role in a player's ability to deal with adversity following demotions, injuries and lack of promotions.

Speed signals how fast the player is.

There are the stock "HELP" definitions, now I'll try to answer your questions based on my own experience/observation.

1) Control- Does this just affect strikes and balls? Or does it also affect the placement of strikes?

1) I believe it affects both, and I believe this has been confirmed in one of the developers' chats.

2) Speed- Is a high speed rating more likely to strike out a low contact or low batting eye batter?

2) A high velocity rating for a pitcher is more likely than a low velocity rating to strike out either type of batter. My gut tells me the low contact batter will strike out more often than the low eye batter (all else being equal), but I haven't tracked that with any care at all, because I don't care much about pitcher or batter strikeouts. Someone else is probably a better source for this one (or, even better, check out some players in your current World) and it probably depends quite a bit on whether your World places an emphasis on the velocity rating. The "speed" rating does not impact pitching.

3) Patience- Does this affect pitching at all? Fewer big hits, perhaps?

3) No, Patience has no impact whatsoever in actual gameplay according to the developers (this is not to be confused saying it plays no role in anything; it can/does in play a role in player development).

4) (a) 1st, 2nd, 3rd pitch, etc- I've figured out nobody makes it in the ML without at least a 1st pitch of 70. What numbers are good, average, and bad? 80, 60, and 45? (b) Do pitchers avoid throwing their bad pitches?

4a) There is no right answer to these questions. Some people use a formula to determine whether the pitchers are ML quality. I've heard 3 pitches > 210 and 4 pitches > 250 thrown out as guiedlines before. My own rule of thumb is to prefer a 1st pitch of 80+ or first two pitches of 70+. 50 has been called "average" by customer support, so anything under 50 is below average. The developers haven't been consistent in whether having a single pitch below 50 (sort of a "show me" pitch) is a negative or a positive, or how far below 50 it has to be to become one or the other.

4B) Some people will swear by catcher's PC as impacting the frequency at which pitchers throw weaker pitches. Developers have seemingly refuted this as clearly as they ever refute anything, but the HBD community has not universally accepted the explanations given. Under certain circumstances, a very good pitch coach can convince a pitcher to drop a poor pitch.

5) (I thought my reliever last year who had 96 control, 65/75 splits, and two pitches 88/73 was good...yet he had an ERA of 5.71). Small sample size, perhaps? Misuse with respect to TPC/MPC? Pitching while fatigued? Especially with RP, one or two bad outing can skew a season's numbers completely. For what it's worth, those ratings look pretty solid to me and he would seem to be a RP I'd have a spot for in any of my current bullpens.

6) Also, how important is it to have extra pitches? I had a 3pitch starter for half a season, and he did ok. Was that a fluke?

6) Opinions vary. Some people swear by 3-pitch pitchers (if all above 50); others won't touch SP with fewer than 4 pitches. Personally, I haven't had much success with 3-pitch pitchers, even with all 3 pitches being "above average" so my preference is for at least 4 pitches. No right answer with this one though.

7) GB/FB- Does this number have linear outcomes? Or is it a step function? I.e., might 25-75 ratings give similar results whilst outliers produce radically different results?

7) The developers have (intentionally) refrained from explaining the precise working of the ratings and engine, so any response I gave to this would be guesswork at best.

8) And...anything else you think I should know!!

8) There are a million and one other things. Best way to learn is by doing, but if you have other specific questions, fire away. In the meantime, searching/reading the forums, the developers' chats, and the HELP pages can all be helpful. Keep in mind though, that each of those things (even the developers' chats and HELP pages in my mind) should be taken with a grain of salt.

Sounds like zbrent would make a good mentor. Factors important to me:

Batter contact & pitch velocity apparently just determine what percentage of outs are strikeouts. Not important.

Pay limited attention to pitch calling. Arm strength & accuracy are more important. I know many people disagree with me, but I've had consistently good staffs with low PC catchers.

Minor league batting stats are dramatically inflated by other owners who pay little attention to their minor league pitchers, frequently letting them pitch when they're badly fatigued.

High minor league home run totals don't translate well to the majors. Expect a AAA player with 50-60 hr to hit 25-30 in the show.

Few players improve much after their 3rd or 4th year. So if you have a 25yo who looks like he'll improve a lot ... probably not.

Beware trading prospects for high-priced veterans. Such deals usually turn out to be lopsided in the other guy's favor.

Don't sign high-priced free-agents who'll be average regulars. You can find guys like that at minimum wage.

Good luck. Hope you enjoy yourself.

Quote: Originally Posted By cespencer on 1/07/2010Batter contact & pitch velocity apparently just determine what percentage of outs are strikeouts. Not important.

I'll challenge "not important". Strikeouts are pitches/outs that are not put in play. Balls put in play can result in errors, runners advancing, etc. They can also result in double plays.

I'd say contact for batters is fairly important. You want your hitters putting the ball in play. More good things can happen offensively on balls put in play as opposed to a swinging strike three.

Velocity for pitchers is of secondary importance, behind the other ratings (control, splits and pitches). All else being equal, use high velocity as a tiebreaker when comparing pitcher A to pitcher B.

before the power update, I didn't put much value on contact ... but now I think that I alaways have below averegae run generation because I've been under-valuing the contact rating ... when the unintended benefit of power was removed, it is clear that my high contact hitters are the ones that are doing better than I "expected" them to do

Zbrent, there's a lot of good stuff here, thanks.

Part of my motivation for asking was that I just acquired a new right-handed, set-up man (we're just now starting a new season), and he had a horrible spring training (10.80 ERA).

His numbers are:

Stamina-22

Control-79

LHP/RHP-74/78

Velocity-26

GB/FB-71

1P/2P- 85/73

Since I've gotten the impression that velocity doesn't matter that much, I expect him to be good. I always pitch him at 100%. For the regular season I have him at 15/15 TPC/MPC, but looking at the game log, apparently I him at 15/30 for Spring Training. Could that be the explanation for the bloated ERA?

PS- For full disclosure, I am in (I think) the most batter friendly ballpark, Madison...which is +2 and +3 across the board.

Pitchers with low stamina pretty much have to have low PC.

But keep in mind that one bad inning for a relief pitcher(a walk, a hit and homer) will destroy their season WHIP/ERA because they pitch so few innings. And, unlike MLB, they stay out there when they're struggling. They either reach their PC or get pulled by the pull setting. Most of us want our best reliever out there so the pull setting is usually 1-2. So he gives up runs when he's bad.

This thread is very helpful, thank you.

Don't pay attention to Spring Training stats. The sample is so small that it is almost completely meaningless. That guy will be fine in the majors.

Quote: Originally posted by zbrent716 on 1/07/20104B) Some people will swear by catcher's PC as impacting the frequency at which pitchers throw weaker pitches. Developers have seemingly refuted this as clearly as they ever refute anything, but the HBD community has not universally accepted the explanations given. Under certain circumstances, a very good pitch coach can convince a pitcher to drop a poor pitch.

Actually, based on a ticket response I got stemming from that last thread we debated this in, it seems like PC doesn't determine frequency of pitches used, but does increase the effectiveness of each pitch independently. So a guy with fringy secondary pitches could perform like he has usable secondary pitches when teamed with a catcher with a great PC.

Quote: Originally posted by antonsirius on 1/07/2010

Quote: Originally posted by zbrent716 on 1/07/20104B) Some people will swear by catcher's PC as impacting the frequency at which pitchers throw weaker pitches. Developers have seemingly refuted this as clearly as they ever refute anything, but the HBD community has not universally accepted the explanations given. Under certain circumstances, a very good pitch coach can convince a pitcher to drop a poor pitch.

Actually, based on a ticket response I got stemming from that last thread we debated this in, it seems like PC doesn't determine frequency of pitches used, but does increase the effectiveness of each pitch independently. So a guy with fringy secondary pitches could perform like he has usable secondary pitches when teamed with a catcher with a great PC.

Do you mind posting that response? That's a new (to me) interpretation of how PC has been said to work, so I find that interesting.

yeah, that's fascinating. i wonder what it means for the value of pitchers with, say, 2 pitches with ratings just below 50...

1/4/2010 11:26 AM antonsirius
Question about the Pitch Calling Rating, stemming from a forum thread:

Does having a catcher with a high PC rating minimize the negative effects of a pitcher having poor secondary pitches?
1/4/2010 4:47 PM Customer Support
Erik,

Yes, the higher the pitch calling rating the better the secondary pitches are.

hmmmm... i'd like to assume PC rating also impacts good / primary pitches.

I'd think so. But that wasn't the question I asked...