I am looking for some opinions here and mostly wanted to get a new topic for everyone to discuss. With some good draft picks and good IFA signings, how long should it take before a team can be rebuilt to the point where it is competing for pennant?

Keep in mind this team has virtually nobody in the entire system and the players it does have may never reach projections due to poor management by previous owners.

Does anyone have tips on the best method of rebuilding? Stay away from FA's? Sign the best IFA or go after a few that are cheaper?

There is no reason a team can't compete for a pennant, assuming you've got NOTHING to work with, by season 4. I say this because that's when YOUR draft picks and IFA signings should be MLB-ready.

Really what you're asking is how to allocate funds. I'd set a schedule and chase FA that will still be contributors when my schedule says I'll be in the playoffs. That means avoiding the 33 years olds if you're working a 4 year plan.

Because I hate to lose, I'd pick up some bargain basement FA at the end of the FA period so I'd be competitive until my rebuild is ready. And, if you see a FA that fits your schedule, chase him from Day 1.

I find that people vastly under estimate what is at the end of the FA period. Especially if you have over payroll, you can front load the contract with a big bonus and get an extra year or few years at a discounted rate.

I took over a very similar team. Nothing whatsoever in the minors, maybe one or two passable major leaguers, and everyone else had either aged tremendously or walked. The previous owner the team in a bad situation.

I basically just blew up and started over. My first season I went 71-91 with mostly the players I had and a few patchwork FA's. Second was 61-101 and third was 56-106. Some people see this as tanking but no one in my world ever accused me of it-- my previous team was terrible and I was legitimately building to seriously contend in the near future. I'd say it's truly "tanking" if you're terrible for more than 2-3 years, because if you do that, it basically means you're just hoarding great IFAs and draft picks for years so you can unleash them all at once, rather than steadily replenishing your system and trying to get back to relevance as quickly as you responsibly can. I've seen lots of teams string together 4 or 5 100-loss seasons (or more) and they do so just to pick up high draft picks. I just did it because I didn't want to sign any great players to long and expensive contracts while my team didn't have a chance at the playoffs. I was also a newbie so some of that was due to me not really understanding ratings my first season or so and accidentally putting a lot of my player money into guys who weren't very good.

During those seasons, I just drafted smart. I visualized what I wanted my team to look like in 3-5 years. I made the mistake of not caring too much about defense (something I've since rectified) but I made sure to pick up middle-of-the-order bats and good pitching. I didn't underestimate the value of relievers either and made sure I got some of them. I was very patient with them, and instead of rushing them to the majors, I made sure they all spent several years in the minor leagues. Better to be mediocre for a few years and be a contender after that than to be a .500 team right now but never improve because you rushed your prospects.

My fourth season I went 80-82 as a started to transition my minor leaguers to the majors. Next season I went 84-78 (breaking my own AL record, and the league record, for most wins by a last-place team. I happened to join an incredibly stacked division by pure chance). I think that 84 wins was artificially low as well-- my pythag says I should have won 89 that year, so I'd count the pythag as better evidence of steady improvement. During this time I signed a few free agents, namely pitchers to shore up my staff. My hitters were mostly taken care of with my prospects at this point. I'd say a great time to start splurging on legit FAs is when your prospects are coming up and your team is at the point where one or two free agents may be enough to put you over the edge.

This year I'm 88-53 with 21 games to play, and I still have guys in my minors that are poised to (hopefully) improve me further next year. My pythag also says I should be 91-50 so, again, my improvement is even more pronounced than my record shows. My only FA signing was last year's AL Cy Young winner, which helped greatly after my prized homegrown pitcher suffered a devestating injury. I shouldn't really call him a FA signing, as actually someone else managed to beat me in a bidding war, but I dealt my best pitching prospect to get him. It ran counter to what I'd been doing with my team before, but at the point that you're a contender, it becomes about winning (because you have to make winning your immediate goal eventually).

Aside from drafting smart, international IFAs can be great, but the best way to get the most out of them is to beat the market. Lots of times, a team will spent an entire IFA budget on one player, and another team will come in and pay bargain prices for 2 or 3 players who are comparable to that player but just came out later in the season. Don't get me wrong-- paying top dollar for a superstar IFA is a great idea if done correctly, but my proudest signings are probably the ones where I got a cornerstone player for between $9-$12m. Luck into those signings, and your team may be good very fast.



Edit: Oh yeah, almost forgot: never skimp on coaching. Without good coaches, your prospect will never improve and you'll always suck. However, a good trick is to splurge on coaching at the levels containing your best prospects and not caring about the others. So if it's your first or second season with the team and all your good prospects are in A ball or Rookie ball, no need wasting perfectly good prospect money on coaches for your AA and AAA squads that year if they'll just be instructing organizational filler.

I only read down to the part where you kept getting worse. There's no reason a team should regress to tanker levels.

1	reddevil19	ML	72-90	.444	4th	No	No
2	reddevil19	ML	58-104	.358	4th	No	No
3	mmacharg	ML	42-120	.259	4th	No	No
4	MikeT23	ML	66-96	.407	3rd	No	No
5	MikeT23	ML	76-86	.469	2nd	No	No
6	MikeT23	ML	75-87	.463	2nd	No	No
7	MikeT23	ML	92-70	.568	2nd	Yes	No	no	no	no
8	MikeT23	ML	90-72	.556	1st	No	Yes	no	no	no
9	MikeT23	ML	93-69	.574	1st	No	Yes	yes	no	no
10	MikeT23	ML	91-71	.562	1st	No	Yes	no	no	no
11	MikeT23	ML	92-70	.568	1st	No	Yes	yes	yes	yes
12	MikeT23	ML	107-55	.660	1st	No	Yes	yes	no	no
13	MikeT23	ML	89-73	.549	2nd	Yes	No	yes	yes	yes
14	gerald007	ML	69-54	.561	-	-	-	-	-	-

http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/threads.asp?forumID=58&TopicID=150310&ReturnPage=Search&PagePosition=0&ThreadPage=11



Next to last page shows my rosters, and how/when the players were acquired, for the two title runs.

Took over a team in Hamilton. Worst record the previous season. No salary issues but not a lot of BL talent.

My current roster includes 6 WW pick-ups(none making more than 378k), 4 FA(total of 11.9m), 3 R5 picks and 1 trade(327k). I'm 42-44. I added about 15m in salary and will finish with 75-80 wins in my first season.

Took over a team in No Quitters (a top world in HBD) and went from 3rd worst to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Anything can be done, even with not a whole lot of talent.

The key is to make sure that while competing for now that you don't lose sight of next season or the 5 after that.

And don't count on using Rule 5 players to add anything meaningful to your win total unless you're in a 'tard world.

Depends on your definition of meaningful.

R5 will produce defensive SS/C, the occassional RP who'll give you 40 innings and SP with flaws(usually DUR/STM/CON issues). But, if you inherit a team with no talent, those guys can help.

The SS I picked up is hitting

.294

.347

.423

The pitchers aren't faring so well.

5.90

.290

1.52

6.14

.311

1.66

Got a little over 100 innings between them. We play in KC.

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/19/2010
There is no reason a team can't compete for a pennant, assuming you've got NOTHING to work with, by season 4. I say this because that's when YOUR draft picks and IFA signings should be MLB-ready.

His first season of draft picks and IFA's could be ready in that time, with maybe a couple of second season picks as well. That's about four to seven major league ready, major league caliber players, of whom a couple might become stars. You can't even compete for a pennant in a disorganized league with that.

I notice nobody challenged you on your assertion, ridiculous as it was. More proof nobody reads what you write any more.

Quote: Originally posted by snake_p on 1/19/2010
His first season of draft picks and IFA's could be ready in that time, with maybe a couple of second season picks as well.  That's about four to seven major league ready, major league caliber players, of whom a couple might become stars.  You can't even compete for a pennant in a disorganized league with that.

Sure, not if you don't scour the waiver wire, make trades, sign free agents or draft any Rule 5 players.

Did that really have to be said? I just assumed everyone knew you could acquire players outside of the draft and internationals. How odd that someone didn't.

Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 1/19/2010The SS I picked up is hitting <TABLE><TBODY><TR>The pitchers aren't faring so well.<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TABLE><TBODY><TR>Got a little over 100 innings between them.   We play in KC.

Yes, you succeeded in blocking other rebuilders (e.g. me) from nabbing the best talent on the WW . . .

In the same league (Hamilton), I also took over a struggling franchise largely devoid of prospects and filled with capable but vastly overpaid ML players. I moved some of them to net some middling prospects, created future cap space, and filled out the rest of my team with R5 and bargain FAs.

I expect my team to win 70+ games. So, in short, it isn't that hard to take a terrible franchise and at least stay competitive from the get go. You need to be proactive though.