Question on defensive development... Topic

volk
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I have a catcher, currently at High A. He projects to be an outstanding hitter, but a very poor catcher (arm strength and accuracy in the 60's, pitch calling in the 40's). He'll make an ideal DH one day, but my team is in the NL. I've placed him on the trade block, hoping someone from the AL is willing to take a chance on him, but he's not far enough along in his development yet to draw any serious interest.

Last season, at Low A, I decided to move him to DH full-time, since A.) a DH is used in the minors, even in the NL, and B.) I had another decent Low A catcher that's better defensively. After a whole season as a DH, his projected defensive ratings dropped even further, understandably. (His pitch calling now projects to 39, and AS/AA are both low 60's).

So my question (finally) is this. If spending a whole season as a DH can cause his projected defensive ratings to plummet like that, is there any way his projected range/glove ratings would rise if I converted him to a 1B? He might have a future in my organization if I can get his glove/range ratings into the high 30's or 40 range, and he certainly swings the bat well, but right now his glove/range only project to under 20, so he'd be a major defensive liability, wherever he ends up.
2/4/2010 2:30 PM
MikeT23
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Projections are a best guess estimate. They may have dropped because you changed ADV.

And, no, you aren't going to see a single digit range C move up to 30's range 1B. Ever.
2/4/2010 2:40 PM
prezuiwf
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If his fielding ratings are dropping, it's probably more due to you not having a good fielding coach, not him being a DH. I've never had any experience with a guy DHing in the minors and having his ratings take a nose dive.

My advice would be to get a food fielding coach (money well spent, trust me) and putting coaches in the minors with good fielding ratings if possible. This is just advice in general. As far as this guy goes, in the minor leagues, it could never hurt to pump a guy's defensive ratings up, even if you're playing him out of position. Hell, if you don't have any prize pitching prospects down there to worry about, stick him at 2B and let him go nuts and max out his projections (as long as he has the durability to handle it). Maybe this guy projects as a DH, but you never know when you might need him to play 1B or C in a pinch and it couldn't hurt.
2/4/2010 2:41 PM
volk
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Right. Figured that was wishful thinking. Guess I'll just keep developing him as a catcher, and see if I can dangle him as trade bait over the next couple of seasons. Thanks.
2/4/2010 2:42 PM
volk
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And I did increase my Adv scouting budget in the offseason, which didn't dawn on me when I posted the original question, so that explains the change I guess. Thanks again.
2/4/2010 2:43 PM
gjello10
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/04/2010
Projections are a best guess estimate. They may have dropped because you changed ADV.

And, no, you aren't going to see a single digit range C move up to 30's range 1B. Ever.

Would make an interesting type of DITR, wouldn't it?
2/4/2010 2:50 PM
moustachee
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just fyi, some people are willing to take that type of defense at C (or sometimes 1B) if the hitter is good enough. so don't rule out that possibility in a trade. different people play the game different ways..
2/4/2010 3:45 PM
johncfremont
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Quote: Originally Posted By gjello10 on 2/04/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/04/2010

Projections are a best guess estimate. They may have dropped because you changed ADV.

And, no, you aren't going to see a single digit range C move up to 30's range 1B. Ever.

Would make an interesting type of DITR, wouldn't it
That'd be an interesting DITR, or if the game ever includes "winter ball" you could try to convert a guy to a new position, but that's not too important IMO. I've never seen a catcher who can really do anything but catch... not many (or any) Craig Biggios in HBD.
2/4/2010 3:53 PM
gjello10
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Quote: Originally Posted By johncfremont on 2/04/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By gjello10 on 2/04/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/04/2010

Projections are a best guess estimate. They may have dropped because you changed ADV.

And, no, you aren't going to see a single digit range C move up to 30's range 1B. Ever.

Would make an interesting type of DITR, wouldn't it?
That'd be an interesting DITR, or if the game ever includes "winter ball" you could try to convert a guy to a new position, but that's not too important IMO. I've never seen a catcher who can really do anything but catch... not many (or any) Craig Biggios in HBD.



Ross Lowell
2/4/2010 4:10 PM
prezuiwf
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Quote: Originally Posted By johncfremont on 2/04/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By gjello10 on 2/04/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/04/2010

Projections are a best guess estimate. They may have dropped because you changed ADV.

And, no, you aren't going to see a single digit range C move up to 30's range 1B. Ever.

Would make an interesting type of DITR, wouldn't it?
That'd be an interesting DITR, or if the game ever includes "winter ball" you could try to convert a guy to a new position, but that's not too important IMO. I've never seen a catcher who can really do anything but catch... not many (or any) Craig Biggios in HBD.



Obviously my intent for him is not to be a catcher, but with a 36 projected pitch call rating, I'd let Yorvit Ortiz catch for me in a pinch. He's already better than my 3rd-string catcher right now (who I use as a DH).
2/4/2010 4:22 PM
gjello10
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He certainly would mow down a few baserunners.
2/4/2010 4:23 PM
torrone
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I would keep him at C if he's that good a hitter and not try to trade him. Here are 3 guys I use at C on my teams that have done just fine with arm & acc in the 60's and PC in the 40's.

[URL=http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=1644786]Neifi Espinosa[/URL]

[URL=http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=1897281]Valerio Lind[/URL]

[URL=http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=1565063]Douglas Valdes[/URL]
2/4/2010 10:28 PM
jtrinsey
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Why wouldn't you just play him at catcher in the minors? Do you have 3 other star catching prospects that you can't find him some innings at catcher?

I would be more than happy to take 40 PC if he could produce an .880-.920 OPS.

However, about defensive ratings in general: I have found that players very rarely exceed their projections and almost always come up a bit short. Ironically, the one player I have seen come through my system that exceeded any of his projected ratings (I keep a spreadsheet of projections from the draft since I have 0 advanced scouting) by more than a point or two was a catcher. But he caught the whole time in the minors.
2/4/2010 10:34 PM
strikeout26
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Just curious, can anybody tell me how much A defense loses by playing a catcher-type at 1st base(i.e. 7 range, 35 glove). I do this from time to time when playing NL teams in interleague play and it seems that the they make the routine plays(not many errors), but rack up a ton of - plays.
2/4/2010 10:36 PM
jtrinsey
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Quote: Originally posted by strikeout26 on 2/04/2010Just curious, can anybody tell me how much A defense loses by playing a catcher-type at 1st base(i.e. 7 range, 35 glove). I do this from time to time when playing NL teams in interleague play and it seems that the they make the routine plays(not many errors), but rack up a ton of - plays.

Go to your league's fielding statistics for the past year for first baseman. Come up with a formula that converts put-outs, assists, errors, +, -, to runs. Look at how many runs saved above average the best 1B was and look at how many runs below average the worst 1B was. If your league is like mine, it will probably be somewhat similar, ie, the worst-fielding 1B will cost about as many runs as the best-fielding 1B saves. Your guy will be around the worst or maybe even a little below.
2/4/2010 10:44 PM
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