I've read a couple of posts over the last few months about the Catcher PC rating, and I think I've almost got its value figured out. A recent post suggested alternately that it could affect ERA .16 or .16/per 10 pts of PC (something like that)...a monumental difference, but who's counting...the point is that it matters, some, for pitcher ERA.

I've an inkling that it matters more for certain pitchers. For those who've had many-many seasons of experience, might this guy:

Orber Rivas

be one for whom it would matter a lot to put in my best PC catcher...because of his multiple bad pitches?

I personally wouldn't throw that guy at the ML level at all, but yeah, if you have to, use the best PC C you got!

No, he's a guy that should be in AAA.

Well, it's off the question Topic...but I'm interested in this, too. I'm in my second season at a franchise with low-middle talent on its roster. I'm still figuring out the game...but it seems to me like Rivas is one of the five best SP I have in my franchise. His control is decent, his splits are solid, and he's a GB pitcher (important in my HR friendly park.) I assume you both say he's AAA because of the pitch-values, right? When you're looking for a good SP, is there a checklist hierarchy you go through? Like...

1) control 50+
2) RHP split 70+
3) Pitch 1 80+
4) DUR 25+
etc.

or something like that? Does the possession of one bad pitch negate the possession of a good one?




And of course, I'd still like to know if PC is --most-- important when pitching an SP just like Rivas...

I'm not sure you read the posts.

We all pretty much agreed that a better PC catcher would make all pitchers better.

Mike, I did. I swear. I got that PC matters for all P. But I assume that good PC catchers make less of a difference with Cy Young winners and more with ______ (fill in the blank). I'm trying to figure out what attribute shortcoming they most help mitigate.

Yeah, if the PC is helping and he is still pitching 5.00+ ERA then he shouldn't be in the majors.

OAV of .280+, WHIP of 1.5+ and ERA of 5.00+ is just bad

a 25 stamina pitcher is a RP...you want at least 50+ stamina for a SP, but if you're going to have multiple guys with < 70 in the rotation you need a lot of IP out of the pen.

pitches and splits are what get outs. a good SP should have 3-4 good pitches, if not he better have high splits.

by saying "because of his multiply bad pitches", you are assuming that a high PC means the the catcher will call the good pitches more than the worst. site staff has said this isn't the way PC works...that a high PC act's as a "multiplier"...reducing a pitchers OAV. So all pitchers will benifit from a high PC catcher...not just ones with bad pitches. judging from comments in these forums, this is one of the most mis-understood ratings.

Yes, they make less difference because there's less difference to make. PC is a modifier for OAV. I'm not sold that pitches/splits operate independant of one another. Some are.

Quote: Originally Posted By deanod on 2/16/2010a 25 stamina pitcher is a RP...you want at least 50+ stamina for a SP, but if you're going to have multiple guys with < 70 in the rotation you need a lot of IP out of the pen.

pitches and splits are what get outs. a good SP should have 3-4 good pitches, if not he better have high splits

And yes, follow this general rule of thumb. Pitches and L/R spilts should be like a weight/counterweight. If you are bad in one, be good in the other, but preferably good in both

Quote: Originally Posted By wilhitec on 2/16/2010by saying "because of his multiply bad pitches", you are assuming that a high PC means the the catcher will call the good pitches more than the worst. site staff has said this isn't the way PC works...that a high PC act's as a "multiplier"...reducing a pitchers OAV. So all pitchers will benifit from a high PC catcher...not just ones with bad pitches. judging from comments in these forums, this is one of the most mis-understood ratings

But it is misunderstood because the term pitch calling infers that it relates to calling pitches.

Quote: Originally Posted By jwelsh1023 on 2/16/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By wilhitec on 2/16/2010
by saying "because of his multiply bad pitches", you are assuming that a high PC means the the catcher will call the good pitches more than the worst. site staff has said this isn't the way PC works...that a high PC act's as a "multiplier"...reducing a pitchers OAV. So all pitchers will benifit from a high PC catcher...not just ones with bad pitches. judging from comments in these forums, this is one of the most mis-understood ratings.

But it is misunderstood because the term pitch calling infers that it relates to calling pitches

agreed...should really be called something like game calling or game management

Instead of trying to figure out or reverse enigneer minute details of formulas that 'may' exist, I prefer to go with my own anecdotal evidence. In my very first season of HBD, I was 17-25 with a good hitting C that I moved to DH. I moved my bench C with a PC rating of 86 to a starter (he was not an elite hitter, but made good contact - especially against LHP and held his own just fine as a hitter). My staff improved dramatically from that point on and I finished with 99 wins and a WS title. Furthermore, both SP's I traded for during the stretch run were miles better for me than for the teams they came from.

That was just the first year. Last year, he played an important part of another good staff. The team lost the WS, but the staff was again good.

This year, I let the same catcher walk as a Type A FA. At 5.3M, I couldn't afford him. With his demands down to 1M before the AD, I re-signed him. 77-42 the rest of the way after starting a mediocre 23-20. My 3 main starting pitchers were much better the second half of the season with him catching.

So while I can mathematically try to discern what the formula is, I'm more than happy to watch what appears to be a discernable effect. For context sake, my team has a very strong defense, which is obviously a contributing factor. I thought that was the strongest factor in my newly acquired pitchers' success two seasons ago, but this year, even they struggled more without the high PC catcher. When I brought him back, almost the whole staff was significantly better.

Not scientific, I know, but it sure looks like it has a noticeable effect.

SSS.

I have had many seasons where two of my catchers have a PC discrepancy of 30+ and the lower one has produced a lower ERA.

So just as you can say it has a noticeable effect, I can say it's meaningless.