Pulldown Strategy Topic

zmoty9
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Before the most recent recruiting period in Smith, I've never attempted to pulldown any recruits in any division.  But this period, I went after a couple of D1 players (100 to 175 position rankings) for my D2 team and had no luck.  I was curious what the best way (if there is one) is to go after pulldowns.  Is it better to throw as much as I can from the start at a guy or wait until the signing period begins and then go after guys that are still not considering anyone?  I tried both and wasn't lucky with either.

7/11/2010 8:14 PM
smalls312
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it usually takes a few scouting trips to get them to consider.....I usually start out by placing a phone call to see if they are even interested.  If you get a response stating you are a backup option in any fashion you have a shot at them.  Throw anywhere from 8-15 scouting trips at them and a scholly and they should start to consider you, if the initial response to your call was promissing.  No campus or home visits should be necessary.  It also helps if the location proximity is fairly close to your school, making it cheaper to front all the scouting trips necessary.
7/11/2010 8:38 PM
smalls312
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forgot to mention, if a D1 school is going after them as well, even if a sim now, probably a good idea to save your money and look elsewhere, unless you are a high A DII prestige and they are a low D DI prestige.  More than likely they will accept the DI offer if available.
7/11/2010 8:51 PM
hackerhog
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I recruit for D2 and pulldowns are practically over now in the new recruit generator.  I have a radius that I usually recruit where there can be as many as 30 or 40 possible pulldowns.  There may be 10 now.  That said there are many out there considering SimAI D1 schools that are recruitable, but those recruits in no way compare in talent to what was there before.  I'm not sure what's the viable recruiting strategy anymore for D2.
7/11/2010 9:57 PM
furry_nipps
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With a high prestige you really don't need pull downs. I have guys as high as 130 ranked on my div II search.
7/11/2010 10:00 PM
dacj501
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did you get the backup message first? The kid won't be pulled down no mater what you do if you get no response to an initial phone call or a negative response...if he gives you the backup message, you can pull him down with evals and a scholie offer...usually between 10-20 IMHO
7/12/2010 2:41 AM
zmoty9
Posts: 215 (0)
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So the timing doesn't really matter?  It's just a matter of whether the guy is open to dropping down at all?
7/12/2010 8:20 AM
hackerhog
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Again, I'm recruiting D2 & got the backup message on this guy.  He's considering a D- prestige SimAI D1 school.  I've poached a D- SimAI D1 school before after considerable effort, so I go for him.  Considering I'm an A+ D2 school coming off a national championship & the other recruits in my radius just don't seem appealing whatsoever (but that's another issue).

He's giving me a response though that I haven't seen before and I'm wondering if you get this, even though you're getting the backup option on his calls, that you have no chance if you're a D2 school.

"Overall, I think he's best suited for mid to mid-major school."

That's a whole lot different than the standard

'Overall, I think a DII school would be lucky to get him, otherwise he'll probably thrive in a low Division I program.'

After 20+ (about to be 30+) evals, countless calls & letters, and rejected visit after rejected visit... still nothing.

Should I fish or cut bait?
7/12/2010 8:23 AM
daalter
Posts: 326 (0)
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Doesn't matter what that message says. If, based on the normal metrics (distance, budget, Word on the Street) you feel that you can sign him, then proceed as normal.
7/12/2010 10:27 AM
courtmagic
Posts: 483 (0)
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I'm no expert at this by any means and most of the stuff just posted is true. One thing I've noticed, even before the new engine started this season, is that with the last fix to the old engine (about 2 - 3 seasons ago), a lot of the guys just mentioned wait and wait and wait for a D11 school if you're a D111 team and a D1 school if you're a D11 team, and than if they don't get the interest they're looking for, they say the heck with it at go JUCO and it doesn't matter how close you are to them or how good your prestige is. No one is getting them.
7/12/2010 10:40 AM
isustud07
Posts: 13 (0)
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I haven't ever posted on here before, but I don't think pull downs are over by any means. I didn't have any problems in my last 2 recruting classes with University of Indianapolis in Tark and USC Aiken in Knight, both teams are with an A+ prestige though. However, I have to disagree with you hackerhog...I was able to sign the #1 recruiting class with Aiken and I signed 4 players with only 3 scholly $'s available (Released a former players since i just took over the team). All 4 of the players were pull downs and 2 of them were top 120 players. I honestly think it just takes more effort on a coach's part to do some research and find the players that will best fit their program and then go after them hard and all at once. I don't think it is as easy now to get good pulldowns, but I also think it was probably too easy in the previous engine, just my opinion though.

Also, zmoty, timing doesn't really matter. If the player is open to talking to you (a backup option), then you can get him to consider you with the right technique.
7/12/2010 11:19 AM
furry_nipps
Posts: 661 (0)
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I think pull downs may have gotten easier. Although recruits are worse, I can contact much more high ranked guys. My limit use to be around 150 even with an A+ prestige, but now it seems like I can go as high as I'd like. I didn't it test it much, but everyone I talked to took my phone call. I contacted guys up towards about 600 ovr and ranked about 80th. Although they took my calls, they will sign with div I schools. I felt it'd be pointless to try higher and fight the little big boys. 
7/12/2010 7:47 PM
hackerhog
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Posted by hackerhog on 7/12/2010 8:23:00 AM (view original):
Again, I'm recruiting D2 & got the backup message on this guy.  He's considering a D- prestige SimAI D1 school.  I've poached a D- SimAI D1 school before after considerable effort, so I go for him.  Considering I'm an A+ D2 school coming off a national championship & the other recruits in my radius just don't seem appealing whatsoever (but that's another issue).

He's giving me a response though that I haven't seen before and I'm wondering if you get this, even though you're getting the backup option on his calls, that you have no chance if you're a D2 school.

"Overall, I think he's best suited for mid to mid-major school."

That's a whole lot different than the standard

'Overall, I think a DII school would be lucky to get him, otherwise he'll probably thrive in a low Division I program.'

After 20+ (about to be 30+) evals, countless calls & letters, and rejected visit after rejected visit... still nothing.

Should I fish or cut bait?
I lost him.  I didn't want to post the results until I filled my class because I was out of money.  It was close though.  

The player I was after was the 63rd ranked SF, was 50 miles from me, 572 rating, and I was battling D- Prestige McNeese State coached by SimAI for him.  I'm A+ prestige Harding.  He had no stars and gave me the backup option.  So heck yeah, I was going to gun for him to see if I could get him.

He didn't accept my home visits and scholarship until the last cycle.  I think if I started a cycle or two earlier on him, I would have got him.  But would it be worth it.  This is what I went through.

I spent "only" $8558 on him.  But he was 50 miles away, so that's a lot.  Here's the breakdown:

25 calls
20 coach calls
15 letters
45 evals
2 home visits

Verdict?  Yeah, you can recruit those sub 100 ranked guys that are considering SimAI D1, but obviously it's not worth it.
7/13/2010 10:17 AM
oldwarrior
Posts: 502 (0)
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The FSS is a vital part for a D2 team recruiting against a D1 sim.  
If Word on the Street lists him as very open to other offers he possibly can be had for less than the $8500 hackerhog dropped on his guy.   If he's more of a priority, I've spent as much as $20k+ and not gotten the guy.
7/13/2010 12:20 PM
spinaldog
Posts: 193 (0)
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As someone relatively new to HD (2nd season in DIII) I was wondering what added performance (if any) I can expect from a pulldown relative to a player recruited from your own division list? As an example, I was able to pull down two players from the DII list (ratings 408 & 410) during this cycle. How much better will they be than recruits from DIII with similar ratings?
7/13/2010 1:25 PM
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