Rebounding Topic

isack24
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I've been hearing a lot about shooting percentage, but I think rebounding it more of a problem. 

All I have is anecdotal evidence, but I have a fair amount (as do other people), and I think rebounding has some serious issues.  It almost seems that in an attempt to appease the contingent who thought game-to-game discrepancies were too large, rebounding ratings have become marginally irrelvevant.  If you have four bigs with 70 ath/90 reb playing against four bigs with 50 ath/70 reb, they should outrebound them 15, and get significantly more offensive rebounds, and I'm just not seeing that.

Agree?  Disagree?
10/8/2010 11:42 AM
girt25
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I haven't seen a difference in rebounding since the change that you mentioned.

I think there are issues with rebounding, but I haven't seen any correlation between that issue and the change.
10/8/2010 11:55 AM
colonels19
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I would really like to weigh in on this subject, but I guess I feel like I don't know enough or that my methods are too simplistic.  I don't really know or even presume what affects rebounding outside of the actual REB rating, thus I guess when looking at/into who should be outrebounding whom, it's almost too complex to really figure out, and I think it was intentionally made that way, and I'm not saying this as if it were a problem either.  If I ran a game, I wouldn't have as many ratings and it would pretty much be like how the NBA sim determines rebounds...the 5 O guys OREB rating/percentage v. the 5 D guys DREB rating/percentage...press the RNG button and see who gets the rebound.  Again very simplistic, but I don't like to overcomplicate things.  I will try to pay closer attention to the rebounding numbers now though.
10/8/2010 12:09 PM
isack24
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Posted by girt25 on 10/8/2010 11:55:00 AM (view original):
I haven't seen a difference in rebounding since the change that you mentioned.

I think there are issues with rebounding, but I haven't seen any correlation between that issue and the change.
And you might be right, like I said, it's only anecdotal.  But I do know that having substantially similar or better rebounding teams now, I have had a significantly less margin of rebounding with my two main teams (one on this ID, one on another).  And most of the games aren't close, I have a huge advantage with my SF, PF, and C, generally, and rarely see the rebounding discrepancies I used to, which I think is wrong.
10/8/2010 12:15 PM
isack24
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I mean, just take a look at this team, and tell me just from a quick glance and knowing that I play man defense (the best rebounding defense), that I shouldn't be outrebounding teams by more than 6 per game, especially with how many more shots per game I make.  I understand it's only seven games this season, but it's been happening for multiple seasons on both of my teams, both which have massive rebounding rating advantages in every game.

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=3012

10/8/2010 12:18 PM
kmasonbx
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I think it's a bit off. There have been plenty of games where I either thought I had a huge rebounding edge or thought I was at a huge disadvantage and in the end the #s were pretty even. The only times I've seen a big edge is when I've shot well and my opponent has shot poorly giving me many more defensive rebounding opportunities.
10/8/2010 12:31 PM
mullycj
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I've thought rebounding has been off since day one of the current release.
10/8/2010 12:51 PM
wronoj
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agreed, if by "off" you mean that now it has a lot less correlation with the REB rating itself than it used to. Or, I guess, that the formula to determine rebounds has actually changed.
10/8/2010 2:20 PM
docmastermd
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This gets me worried. Still in DIII but i signed two centers with 70 and 75 reb with high potential. So when they get in the 90's they should be grabbing bounds left and right against teams who basically only have one guy over 60 reb. If they don't i'll be ****** the eff off.
10/8/2010 3:16 PM
ike1024
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Well don't get your hopes up.

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=3795

10/8/2010 3:21 PM
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kmasonbx1
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I don't know Ike, averaging 6 rebounds per game more than your opponents seems to be a pretty significant advantage.
10/8/2010 3:56 PM
isack24
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I'm not sure it's really that significant, but I especially don't think so when you consider the fairly sizeable reb advantages I've had against a majority of teams over the last two years (I just graduated a 40 ath/85 reb guy), and the fact that I play man and most Wooden D3 teams I play run press or zone.  I'm really only using it to highlight that I think the reb rating has becoming far less significant, and I think it's probably gone too far the wrong way (assuming it was even wrong before, which I don't think it was).

10/8/2010 5:04 PM
emy1013
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I think rebounding has been changed a lot.  When I first started playing HD, I would routinely see teams outrebounding their opponents for the season by double digit margins, sometimes by as much as 16-18 per game.  When I first read KMason's post above about 6 being a fairly significant margin, my first thought was that he was WAAAY off base, but after checking the team leaders in Tark (through 12 games, about half the season), he's right on the mark.  A +6 advantage would land you in the top 25 for rebounding margin in all 3 divisions.  Not at all what I expected to see and frankly, I was a bit shocked that the margins were so low.

Many of the old-timers around here would tell you that "back in the day", rebounding was probably the single biggest key to success.  Outrebound your opponents had you had a HUGE leg up on winning the game.  It would appear that might not be the case so much anymore.  Damn, I need to start paying a little more attention because apparently the game has passed this old man up!!

10/8/2010 5:07 PM
hughesjr
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OK, I just looked up the stats for the real life Big East last season (just as an example).  Here is the Difference between Offensive and Defensive rebounds, from highest to lowest;

West Virginia 6.30
Cincinnati 6.20
Pittsburgh 5.10
Villanova 4.60
Syracuse 4.30
Connecticut 4.00
Notre Dame 3.50
St. John's 2.50
Providence 2.30
Georgetown 2.30
Louisville 2.00
South Florida 0.90
Seton Hall -1.10
Marquette -1.30
Rutgers -3.00
DePaul -5.50

This would seem to indicate that +6 is indeed a very good number.
10/8/2010 5:34 PM
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