Hall of Fame Voting Topic

burnsy483
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I'm not sure if other worlds are having this issue or not (I'm only in one world), but we don't have enough people making the HOF. We've had our first player get in in 2 (maybe 3?) seasons.  There are definitely 5+ guys who are deserving, and an argument can easily be made for 10.  The issues are:

A - We only have 5 votes.  The votes are being split up among 6-8 players who are getting 10-15 votes each.

B - Not enough teams are voting.  I would guess that 20-25 of the 32 teams do.  I'm not sure if the issue is people are apathetic, forgetful, or are just more focused on free-agent signing, but instead of 50% of teams having to vote someone in, it becomes 70-80% of voters.

My suggestion would be either/both:

A - Have an option on the voting page that says "Abstain."  This way you can see who actually believes there should be no new members of the Hall, and who just didn't vote.  You can then take 50% of the actual voters to determine whether or not someone should be in the Hall.  You can also have a minimum vote necessary - I'd make it 20.  (not my original idea - credit goes to mfahie)

B - Raise the maximum votes allowed to 6-8. 

I'm curious what people's thoughts are on this topic.  I'm frustrated that not enough people are getting in.

10/22/2010 4:59 PM (edited)
tecwrg
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This is not an isolated problem.  I've seen this in my worlds.

I think you've pretty much nailed the reasons: too many worthy candidates to choose from, and a general sense of apathy from the owners.

Not sure what the best solution should be.  You don't want to lower the standards such that too many guys are getting voted in, which could happen if you start letting people vote for more than five guys, or allow for less than 16 votes for election.
10/22/2010 5:00 PM
MikeT23
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I think people don't care.   I don't think you can make them care.   The HOF was the shiny new toy you couldn't wait to open.   Then, after playing with it for a couple of days, it was old news and you moved on.

I don't have a solution other than your option A.   However, I'd make it 70% of those who actually voted.
10/22/2010 5:55 PM
MikeT23
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Plus, while we're at it, the nomination screen opens so slow, or not at all, that I've lost interest.   If I can't nominate, I'm not likely to vote.   Do something to speed it up.    Put some heavy minimum appearance, AB or IP numbers on the ability to nominate.
10/22/2010 5:57 PM
shobob
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Too many players are eligible to be nominated.  This leads to the field being too crowded, and the votes get spread out too much.
10/22/2010 9:18 PM
burnsy483
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I agree that too many people are nominated, it's pretty ridiculous.

I do think Option A is the best option.  And I'd be OK with increasing the percentage some, although there are a lot of people who should be getting in who aren't.  I'd vote for 60%.
10/23/2010 4:10 PM
tecwrg
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Plus people are nominating crap players from their own team.  Not that it's difficult to weed them out, but I can imagine if somebody is presented a list of 60+ nominees, and a quick glance shows that half of them are crap, that one might say "Aw, screw it" and just bag the whole vote.
10/23/2010 4:37 PM
overeasy
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I think one problem with the list of nominees is that the default is that once someone is nominated, they are still nominated for the following season and require the original nominator to remove them. This means that all the crap guys who were nominated in the first season when it was a shiny new toy and people wanted to nominate someone just for the sake of doing it are still there clogging up the voting screen. Anyone who the sim isn't auto-nominating should require manual intervention to get on the ballot each season.
10/24/2010 3:07 PM
tmantom3285
Posts: 137 (0)
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I think acomplishments should give players credit for a vote and then just leave it the same.

For instance:

MVP/CY Young:  .5 votes
AS/ROY:              .25 Votes
SS/FOY:              .25 votes

Then if your guy went to 8 all star games, won 4 Silver Sluggers and won 2 MVPs he would already have an automatic 5 votes before voting begins. It would help more players get in as well make sure the right people get in.

You can't do credit for World Series rings for credit because then the 25th guy who won 3 rings would get automatic votes.
10/26/2010 1:09 PM
98greenc5
Posts: 188 (0)
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Not completely on topic with the suggestion at hand, but more a note about the HoF as a concept (which partially explains the apathy issue):

I mentioned this in a thread where someone was aksing if they should jump into HBD, and that as an owner you really don't get to "know" that many players in the world ... you know all your own guys, certainly the ones that were even marginal MLB guys ... and maybe you know the absolute studs in the world from having seen them on league leader boards or in awards race voting

But HBD is not like MLB ... if there were even only 20 guys nominated in an HBD class, it is possible that I might not recognize a half dozen names ... if a guy played in another league, maybe spent his whole career with one team, maybe played for an owner who doesn't talk about his guys in WC, I might never have heard about him

It certainly isn't the case where we can "debate" the merits of a guy ... there's the stats and the awards ... it isn't nearly as fun to nominate or vote for the guys are the idealized version of having a HoF is in out minds
10/26/2010 3:34 PM
MikeT23
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It was mentioned in another thread(not sure if you were there) but I thought it would be nice if, along with the next SP, if the team leaders could be shown in that little box.  Obviously we can dig into a team and see all their players but, if everyone is like me, you only do that for strategic purposes.  And, for the most part, I do that by looking at team stats.   Showing me that my opponent has a guy hitting .362 on the front page would make me more familiar with his individual players.

Doesn't solve the problem you present but, if I kept seeing the same guy, season after season as a team leader, he'd have more "name" recognition with me.
10/26/2010 5:01 PM
overeasy
Posts: 880 (0)
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But shouldn't the HOF be reserved for the guys who are all over the leaderboards and awards nominations each season, thus having name recognition?  After only 17-18 seasons or less played, how many guys are actually out there that had a full career of HOF worthy stats and have retired?  I would bet that a lot of people don't think the players who had less than 10 HOF caliber seasons should get in unless they were at or very close to be the undisputed best players in the entire world during their prime seasons.
Long term it seems likely that the only worlds that will have trouble electing the truly worthy players into the Hall would be higher turnover worlds.
10/27/2010 2:15 PM
MikeT23
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I think you'll be hardpressed to find a world that's in it's 17th season that has 24-25 original owners.   And, if you do, I think you'll equally hardpressed to find 20 ot them that have followed it so closely that they know Player A made 8 consecutive A/S games or Player B won 9 SS awards.    And, if you find 20 of them, I think you'll be hardpressed to get 16 of them to agree on which players deserve the HOF. 

I personally don't have a problem with 0-2 guys making the HOF each season.  But I have to wonder if that's because only a few are worthy or because only a few are voting.
10/27/2010 2:42 PM
overeasy
Posts: 880 (0)
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I would think only that many would be worthy each season. If it wasn't for the Veteran's Committee, wouldn't the real HOF have that amount, too?
10/27/2010 3:57 PM
deathinahole
Posts: 4139 (0)
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Yea, I think the two that stick out here;
-limit the amount of noms to smaller than what it is now.
-name recognition. I think the best way to do that is instead of throwing up who's best at RF range 5 games into the season on the main World page, rotate the main stats; batting avg leaders, ERA leaders, HR leaders, strikeout leaders. Every four games, over and over again. Interject with truly noteworthy individual performances (the no no, the cycle, when single game records are broken....oh wait, that's not tracked)
10/27/2010 4:02 PM
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