Has anyone ever seen this before? In the left-side portion of the boxscore, two of my players are substituted in at 4:00 remaining, specifically Sanders at SF and Dale at PF. However, at 3:21 remaing, it shows that Dale is playing SF and Sanders is at PF. Does anyone know which listing in the box score is correct? Thanks.

04:00	Patrick Sanders (SF), Barry Dale (PF) Randolph Broome, Wesley Long	28-28	Jamie Vaughn (PG), Allen Mullins (SG) Timothy Adams, Christopher Kennedy
03:44	Barry Dale buries a jumper near the basket set up by Gordon Hoefer and the foul's on Luis Jaeger - foul #1 on Luis Jaeger, team foul #10	30-28
03:44	Barry Dale makes the free throw	31-28
03:36		31-28	Allen Mullins misses short on a 3pt shot from the right wing
03:35	Roger Fisher snags the defensive board	31-28
03:21	Barry Dale hits a floater from just outside the lane set up by Patrick Sanders	33-28
	PG Christopher Zigler(fresh)     SG Gordon Hoefer(fresh) 1 ast.   SF Barry Dale(fresh) 5 pts.   PF Patrick Sanders(fairly fresh) 4 pts.   C Roger Fisher(fresh) 2 reb.		PG Jamie Vaughn(fairly fresh)     SG Allen Mullins(fresh) 3 pts.   SF Rick Cooper(fresh)     PF Timothy Hall(fresh) 9 pts. 4 reb.   C Luis Jaeger(fresh) 4 pts.

I assume that you have the players in question on your depth chart at both SF and PF? 

If so, what probably happened is they subbed in for the positions listed initially...the program then realized both were on the floor together and switched them back to their "more natural" positions (i.e.-the one where each was ranked highest on the depth chart at), so when you got to the 3 min. summary, they were actually on the floor in those positions. 

Obviously, this is all conjecture since I don't know your depth chart, but that' would be my assumption unless presented with evidence to the contrary. 

Yes, both are listed at both positions, with Sanders being listed higher at both. I would think these scenerios would be accounted for during the initial substitutions, instead of being recognized at a later point. 

Might be worth a ticket to try to get an explanation Nacho.  I would tend to agree with your assumption that they should have been put in the correct positions when they were initially substituted into the game.

Sorry that I missed this the first time, but during the second half almost the exact same scenerio played out with a different result. In this instance, the players' positions continued to reflect those initially stated in the play-by-play (rather than switching). Let me know what you think.

04:09	Patrick Sanders (SF), Barry Dale (PF), Roger Fisher (C) Randolph Broome, Wesley Long, Ryan Quesenberry	69-65	Jamie Vaughn (PG), Rick Cooper (SF), Timothy Hall (PF) Timothy Adams, Kevin Evans, Joseph Hickey
04:09	Brian Jordan makes the 1st free throw	70-65
04:09	Brian Jordan makes the 2nd free throw	71-65
03:58		71-65	Timothy Hall misses the driving attempt from the left block but the foul's on Barry Dale - foul #3 on Barry Dale, team foul #11
03:58		71-65	Timothy Hall misses the 1st free throw
03:58		71-66	Timothy Hall makes the 2nd free throw
03:48	Patrick Sanders misses badly on a fadeaway jumper from the left wing but he's hacked by Rick Cooper - foul #1 on Rick Cooper, team foul #12	71-66
03:48		71-66	Luis Jaeger (C) Shawn Ringgold
03:48	Patrick Sanders misses the 1st free throw	71-66
03:48	Patrick Sanders makes the 2nd free throw	72-66
	PG Andrew Lieb(tiring) 8 pts. 2 ast.   SG Brian Jordan(tiring) 23 pts. 1 ast. 3 pf.   SF Patrick Sanders(fairly fresh) 7 pts.   PF Barry Dale(fresh) 5 pts. 3 pf.   C Roger Fisher(fresh) 5 reb.		PG Jamie Vaughn(tiring) 6 pts. 2 ast. 2 stl. 3 pf.   SG Christopher Kennedy(fairly fresh) 3 pts.   SF Rick Cooper(fresh) 1 pts. 2 reb.   PF Timothy Hall(fresh) 14 pts. 9 reb. 4 pf.   C Luis Jaeger(fresh) 6 pts. 3 reb.

  

There must be no differentiation between which should play where.  It's too bad you can't set that in situations like these...

For certain send a ticket and post the response.  This is pretty significant.  What are their "listed or natural" positions on their profile?  What positions are their primary positions on the depth chart?

This is significant because of defensive purposes as well as positioning.  And if it happens here, it probably could happen at PG and SG and the rest of positions. 

Hopefully someone from WIS can make a comment regarding this too.

The "listed or natural" posittions for both players are PF. On the depth chart, Sanders is ranked 2nd for PF and 3rd for SF, while Dale is ranked 3rd for PF and 4th for SF.

I already have a pending ticket at the moment concerning a different topic, but as soon as I get a response I will submit another ticket concerning this topic. Thanks.

I have submitted a ticket concerning this topic, but I wanted to to add another (and more puzzling) example from the game last night. In this instance, with 9:38 left in the 2nd half, Sanders subs in at SF and Dale at C. At 8:59 remaining, the PF is replaced by a player that will be occupying the C position. As I understand, this should move Dale to PF while Sanders remains at SF. However, at the 7 minute summary, Dale is shown to be playing SF and Sanders at PF. The most puzzling aspect is that the 3 minute summary shows Sanders playing SF and Dale at PF, despite the fact that no substitutions and/or team adjustments had been made since and/or between the previous summary. 

	Mel Turner (PG), Loren Crum (SG), Mario Noren (C) Joseph Byrne, Earl Slocum, James Muncy	31-65	Christopher Zigler (PG), Gordon Hoefer (SG), Patrick Sanders (SF), Barry Dale (C) Andrew Lieb, Brian Jordan, Randolph Broome, Ryan Quesenberry
09:38		31-65	Wesley Long misses the free throw
09:38	Mario Noren snags the defensive board	31-65
09:24	Thomas Clark misses short on a 3 pointer from the left corner	31-65
09:23	Michael Brantley snags the offensive board	31-65
09:13	Gordon Hoefer steals it from Mel Turner	31-65
09:10		31-67	Wesley Long lays it up and in on a great pass from Gordon Hoefer
08:59	Thomas Clark is whistled for traveling	31-67
08:59		31-67	Ryan Quesenberry (C) Wesley Long
08:34		31-67	Patrick Sanders misses the wide open turnaround from the right block
08:33	Mario Noren grabs the board	31-67
08:15	Thomas Clark misses badly on a floater from the right wing but he's fouled by Patrick Sanders - foul #1 on Patrick Sanders, team foul #3	31-67
08:15	Earl Slocum (SG) Loren Crum	31-67
08:15	Thomas Clark misses the 1st free throw	31-67
08:15	Thomas Clark makes the 2nd free throw	32-67
07:54		32-67	Barry Dale is hacked by Michael Brantley - foul #5 on Michael Brantley, team foul #8
07:54	James Muncy (C) Michael Brantley	32-67
07:54		32-68	Barry Dale makes the 1st free throw
07:54		32-69	Barry Dale makes the 2nd free throw
	PG Mel Turner(fairly fresh) 1 ast.   SG Earl Slocum(tiring) 12 pts. 3 ast. 2 stl. 3 pf.   SF Thomas Clark(very tired) 17 pts. 4 reb. 3 stl. 4 pf.   PF Mario Noren(tired) 6 reb.   C James Muncy(very tired) 2 reb.		PG Christopher Zigler(fairly fresh)     SG Gordon Hoefer(fairly fresh) 2 pts. 1 ast.   SF Barry Dale(fairly fresh) 4 pts. 3 reb.   PF Patrick Sanders(fairly fresh) 4 pts. 2 reb.   C Ryan Quesenberry(tiring) 6 pts. 10 reb. 3 pf.
07:32	The short jumper by Thomas Clark is denied by Barry Dale	32-69
07:30		32-69	Patrick Sanders snags the defensive board
07:26		32-69	Barry Dale's pass is intercepted by Mel Turner in the backcourt
07:17	Earl Slocum hits a floater in the paint and he's hacked by Gordon Hoefer - foul #1 on Gordon Hoefer, team foul #4	34-69
07:17	Joseph Byrne (SG) James Muncy	34-69
07:17	Earl Slocum makes the free throw	35-69
07:01		35-71	Christopher Zigler knocks in the floater from the left wing
06:52	Earl Slocum comes up short on the jumper from the left wing	35-71
06:51		35-71	Ryan Quesenberry snags the defensive board
06:30		35-74	Gordon Hoefer hits a 3 from the right wing
06:05	Thomas Clark misses long on a 3pt jumper from the left wing	35-74
06:04		35-74	Ryan Quesenberry gets the rebound
05:49		35-76	Ryan Quesenberry is open and scores on a jumper from close range on a nice dish by Gordon Hoefer
05:43	Thomas Clark comes up short on the 3pt shot from the right corner	35-76
05:42		35-76	Ryan Quesenberry grabs the board
05:40		35-76	Mel Turner steals the ball from Christopher Zigler in the backcourt
05:32	Joseph Byrne loses the dribble to Patrick Sanders	35-76
05:29		35-76	Gordon Hoefer is hacked by Joseph Byrne in the backcourt - foul #3 on Joseph Byrne, team foul #9
05:29	Loren Crum (PF), James Muncy (C) Joseph Byrne, Mario Noren	35-76
05:29		35-77	Gordon Hoefer makes the 1st free throw
05:29		35-78	Gordon Hoefer makes the 2nd free throw
05:26	Mel Turner is fouled in the backcourt by Christopher Zigler - foul #2 on Christopher Zigler, team foul #5	35-78
05:15	Earl Slocum clanks a shot from the free throw line but he's fouled by Ryan Quesenberry - foul #4 on Ryan Quesenberry, team foul #6	35-78
05:15	Earl Slocum makes the 1st free throw	36-78
05:15	Earl Slocum makes the 2nd free throw	37-78
04:57		37-80	Barry Dale is open and buries a jumper in the lane on a great pass from Gordon Hoefer
04:50	Thomas Clark can't connect on a 3pt jumper from the right wing	37-80
04:49	Mel Turner grabs the offensive board	37-80
04:34	Mel Turner hits the front of the rim on the 3 pointer from straight away	37-80
04:33		37-80	Patrick Sanders grabs the board
04:31		37-80	Patrick Sanders's pass is off the mark and out of bounds in the backcourt
04:31	Joseph Byrne (PG) Mel Turner	37-80
04:26	Thomas Clark is whistled for a carry	37-80
04:00		37-83	Christopher Zigler connects on the 3pt jumper from the right corner set up by Patrick Sanders
03:49	Patrick Sanders steals it from Earl Slocum	37-83
	PG Joseph Byrne(tiring) 1 ast. 3 pf.   SG Earl Slocum(tired) 17 pts. 3 ast. 2 stl. 3 pf.   SF Thomas Clark(very tired) 17 pts. 4 reb. 3 stl. 4 pf.   PF Loren Crum(fairly fresh) 3 pts. 1 ast.   C James Muncy(very tired) 2 reb.		PG Christopher Zigler(tired) 5 pts.   SG Gordon Hoefer(tired) 7 pts. 3 ast.   SF Patrick Sanders(tired) 4 pts. 4 reb. 2 stl.   PF Barry Dale(tired) 6 pts. 3 reb.   C Ryan Quesenberry(very tired) 8 pts. 13 reb. 4 pf.

 

They (your opponent) made substitutions ... maybe in cases where you could play more than one position, they base it on who is at what position on the other team?

Posted by hughesjr on 12/3/2010 1:46:00 PM (view original):
They (your opponent) made substitutions ... maybe in cases where you could play more than one position, they base it on who is at what position on the other team?

Hello good sir, the only problem with this explanation is that in the first example at the very top of this thread both players swap positions although no substitution or adjustment had been made by the other team. 

I thought it might have something to do with the C that happened to be in the game the time, but I can't find any good examples to make this case.     

interesting... could you list your depth chart for the sf and pf positions? and tired/getting tired settings at those positions?

still doesn't seem right though. my guess is the tie breakers that usually force conformity are not breaking the tie, leaving the order basically random. i am not sure what the usual tie breakers are - possibilities i can think of are depth chart order, fatigue level, fouls, and maybe but probably not, stamina. but with the 1st man out at both spots, i could see all those tie breakers basically becoming ties if you have the same guy at 2nd at both and same at 3rd on both.

i have always wished the depth chart went out further - past 4 deep - because i always find myself setting my depth chart, wanting to break a tie, but without enough room. often instead of having something like guards ABCD playing A at pg, B at sg, C at 2nd pg and 2nd sg, and D at 3rd pg and 3rd sg, if i prefer in a tie for C to play pg, i will leave him at 4th sg or leave D at 4th pg. this might be useful in your case, depends if you need that 4th position for the 3rd backup or not at both positions in question.