Discussion quoted here from recent coaches corner in Knight Big 12 (during season 34 recruiting)

1/18 2:27 PM	qbydeuce22		A good point jsidd... I think this is a good discussion. If nothing else it provides some consideration for optimum recruiting strategy which can benefit everyone in conference.
1/18 1:45 PM	jsidd		In my experience, the best way to handle this situation is not to make specific or non-specific recruiting agreements which probably violate any reasonable interpretation of the Fair Play Guidelines. Instead, conference coaches should be vigilant in ...
1/18 1:45 PM	jsidd		...observing the recruiting behavior of other coaches. When a conference mate exhibits behavior outside of the best interest of the conference, it opens that coach up to retaliation. The key is the notion that the behavior may be negative for the ...
1/18 1:45 PM	jsidd		...conference overall which is bad for each of us so the retaliation doesn't just come from the coach that was directly affected. Of course the highest prestige schools have the largest impact on conference recruiting but the burden of ensuring ...
1/18 1:45 PM	jsidd		...appropriate behavior is not theirs alone. Again, this is not something that some or all of the coaches need to agree to (which would likely be a violation), but rather is a way for each coach to approach handling the actions of the other coaches ...

.

1/18 1:45 PM	jsidd		...in the conference. In my experience, when conferences operate this way, the problems tend to sort themselves out pretty quickly.
1/18 1:40 PM	joehof		P.S. Do you think it's a bad sign when a 6'0" PG you sign has very close to DOUBLE the low post skills of the 6'11" Center that you sign? That can't be a recipe for success...
1/18 1:34 PM	hitman1979		I don't think anyone is going out of their way to harm another team in conference, but sometimes the opening is with someone who a conference mate has considering them, and it happens. I don't think it's malicious, but it's the way it goes, and the ...
1/18 1:34 PM	hitman1979		...way I've learned D1 recruiting works. I agree with joe - best solution is to carry some cash into signings day to prevent this sort of thing. We usually get poached when we spread ourselves a bit too thin.
1/18 1:28 PM	joehof		I've definitely been stung by the "wait to the last second" approach, and I actually really struggled to recover from one of those. The irony is that it was the real final straw that pushed me towards what has been a much better recruiting ...
1/18 1:28 PM	joehof		...strategy. Whether it's an in-con or out-of-con coach, there's always someone looming to come steal someone (if they're worth stealing). You should rarely leave yourself without some form of "battling $$$" - even into the final cycle ...
1/18 1:28 PM	joehof		...before signings. While it hurt when sg stole a recruit from me a handful of seasons ago - it forced me to be a better recruiter. My opinion for what it's worth....and agree we can't have any agreement - if for no other reason than I won't ...
1/18 1:28 PM	joehof		...remember it!
1/18 1:05 PM	qbydeuce22		Right, so no agreements with other users to "not go after specific players". That makes sense to me. I don't think we are talking specifics here. Just a general sense to "try" to avoid late recruitment period battles. I don't ...
1/18 1:05 PM	qbydeuce22		...even think there has to be anything agreed to. It just seems to me that booby had a point before and generally jumping on another conference-mate's recruit late should try to be avoided. Maybe I am way off-base here, but it made sense to me...

1/18 12:30 PM	Commissioner		Please make sure you're aware of the Fair Play Guidelines and the following is not allowed: Making agreements with other users to go or not go after specific players with the intent of avoiding recruiting/negotiation battles.
1/18 12:20 PM	oldresorter		duece - no - you can't have any agreements - it is against the fair play rules, at least as I understand them
1/18 12:05 PM	qbydeuce22		You may be right that we shouldn't have a formal pact or agreement. But, a gentleman's (gentleladies?) agreement to try to avoid jumping on conference-mates recruits after the first 24 hours or so of recruiting seems reasonable. If you have to do ...
1/18 12:05 PM	qbydeuce22		...it, fine, but I think generally in-conference, if it can be avoided it benefits everyone.
1/18 11:49 AM	oldresorter		What you guys are realizing is how top coaches go about recruiting, the fewer battles you enter, the better off you will be, but .... you cannot agree in any way shape or form to form any kind of pact, at least according to my understanding of the ...
1/18 11:49 AM	oldresorter		...rules, I have recruited side by side with other A+ and many other schools in many markets, I really try to avoid confrontation and battles, sometimes it doesn't work out, sometimes you see a weakness and you go for it, sometimes you need to slap a ...
1/18 11:49 AM	oldresorter		...coach back who has harmed you (I used to have a 2 for 1 policy, but often did not retaliate until a coach singled me out twice, then I usually fought back and hard, I also try to look at it from the other coach's POV b4 getting too angry), but ...
1/18 11:49 AM	oldresorter		...overall, the more you can stay out of battles, the better off you are, but you simply cannot make an agreement or a policy dictating such.
1/18 10:41 AM	indyjag		Good luck to you too jsidd. I really needed Ryan with having 6 players leave me after this coming season.
1/18 9:13 AM	jsidd		indyjag: good battle, great signing. I really needed Ryan but it wasn't meant to be. It must have been pretty close based on my math and assumptions though. I spent a ton on him. Anyway, well done and good luck this season.

1/18 9:03 AM	indyjag		wow, nice grab booby!
1/18 8:51 AM	sportsguy001		There hasn't been an opportunity. I'm not going to battle for someone in Kansas if i'm not within 360 miles. Hypocrite? I go after recruits right before signings all the time with many different schools depending who was easiest to get. I should ...
1/18 8:51 AM	sportsguy001		...have gonen after joehof's recruit in NM because i know he wouldn't be whining right now. In the end you didn't save enough money to battle.
1/18 8:17 AM	netgymrat	Michigan St. (Big 10)	Nice battle and congrats booby. I should never have stuck in that battle for so long, but thought I might pull it out in the end.
1/18 8:10 AM	boobyknight		Won my battle with A-rated Mich St over a 4-star PF. Despite distance advantage, it cost me most of my $$$ but was a good pick up for rebuilding next season
1/18 1:54 AM	thorknight		And the funny part is he is finally out to A+ and thinks he is now the **** and pulls this maneuver and then he acts all arrogant. Makes me laugh actually that he hasn't had the guts to do it until now yet he preaches this ****. Why hasn't he tried ...
1/18 1:54 AM	thorknight		...to pull it off until now against me? Hmmm. Effin hypocrite.
1/18 1:50 AM	thorknight		"Dude get over it" Yea that will make me get over it. What, are you 12? No one with slightest hint of wisdom would have pulled that off, not on the Number 1 recruit. and the fact that you deal in absolutes makes me laugh. The fact that ...
1/18 1:50 AM	thorknight		...you don't understand that I can retaliate just as much and if I won't win neither will you in the end, and if that fact escapes you as a reason why not to jump on a recruit against another A+ team then you do not understand what respect is.
1/17 11:20 PM	hitman1979		Booby, I think that's a bit overstated. Even in your example, the Big 10, I just saw one school jump on another the morning of signings.

1/17 11:04 PM	boobyknight		sportsguy -- the effort here is to keep the conference from spending all its $$$ fighting each other. Most conferences have understandings about this.
1/17 10:49 PM	sportsguy001		Dude get over it. I think a cut-off time is ridiculous. There is no reason a coach shouldn't be able to go after a recruit at anytime even if a conferenence mate is on his considering list. There is no "someone else's recruit" until they ...
1/17 10:49 PM	sportsguy001		...sign.
1/17 8:37 PM	thorknight		I don't mind the cut off. I don't care about any cut off (in conference) as long as it leaves enough recruiting cycles for people that are away (say 24 hrs from starting time of recruiting), and I will respect it except against a certain ***.
1/17 8:16 PM	qbydeuce22		I like the 8am (or some cut-off time) idea. Its simple enough, and will at least keep us from jumping in on someone else's recruit right before the signing period.
1/17 5:18 PM	boobyknight		I sense brewing recruiting wars that could really hurt the conference overall. Looking at posts on Big Ten, I think we are doing far too much fighting among ourselves in recruiting. Maybe we should consider a "draft" -- 1 round based on ...
1/17 5:18 PM	boobyknight		...finish for the prior season, but with top picks getting 1st choice. (They earn it).
1/17 5:18 PM	boobyknight		Collusion? Yes. But only among our conference for 12 picks -- 1 per team. And of course that doesn't impact what other conferences would do so it doesn't guarantee a signing.
1/17 5:18 PM	boobyknight		Option 2: no jumping on a player being considered by another Big 12 team after a given point -- say 8 am morning after recruiting starts. This still allows someone who missed the first evening cycle to get in on a player (like A&M jumped in on ...
1/17 5:18 PM	boobyknight		...Forshee with me, but lg apparently was otherwise committed)

Your posting this in the inverse order. You posted the last post first.

yup, sorry, the order in which one scrolls backwards - note proposal for specific cutoff time for battles, proposal for draft, admonition by some members of the league against collusion and admonition by Admin.....very interesting, I thought worth preserving so it doesnt disappear the way coaches corner stuff does after a while

this is like watergate! FD that makes you DEEPTHROAT! 

This all happned because a coach overextended himself and paid the consequences. Just because of someone made a recruiting blunder and got ****** off conf mates are proposing a draft? This is ridiculous. I hate collusion.

how are some of these people big 6 coaches and don't know how to recruit or that this **** is against the rules?

Cheaters are funny. At least OR and joehof were there to try to talk some sense into them.

my favorite part was the quote right after the Commish stepped in, saying essentially "right, we're not talking about specific players here, so it's cool". No, it's not.

Wow.  Until WIS finds a way to get away from the modified auction recruiting format, the temptation for this type of collusion will continue to exist.  And I can imagine some of these conference board discussions morph into site mail discussions, and then to private email discussions.  If the will is there to collude by 2 or more coaches, there is ultimately no way to stop it, and the modified auction format is entirely vulnerable to it.

Posted by jskenner on 1/19/2011 10:41:00 AM (view original):
Wow.  Until WIS finds a way to get away from the modified auction recruiting format, the temptation for this type of collusion will continue to exist.  And I can imagine some of these conference board discussions morph into site mail discussions, and then to private email discussions.  If the will is there to collude by 2 or more coaches, there is ultimately no way to stop it, and the modified auction format is entirely vulnerable to it.

I have a proposal to fix recruiting, if seble wishes for me to help him, all he has to do is ask - LOL

the real interesting posts are the ones between kansas and colorado. everyone should go back and read those.