SLB is Irrationally Skewed toward Hitting vs. P Topic

Case closed.  Jury in.  Verdict.
1/25/2011 1:44 PM
I think it is 60/40 or something close to that.

The hitter's stats matter more than the pitchers.   They put up the event tree a couple summer's ago that explained it.
1/25/2011 1:46 PM
Well, yes, the outcome of an individual PA is slightly more heavily determined by the batter than the pitcher.

But it doesn't follow that the outcomes of games would be more offense-oriented - that would depend on salaries and affordability of quality PA/IP.

For what it's worth, I completely disagree that the SIM is hitting dominant; I consider it slightly too pitching dominant right now.  In OLs, HR are virtually impossible to come by except for a handful of pre-1925 sluggers (Williams, Ruth, Cravath, Freeman, Walker).  Almost everyone uses pitcher's parks.  OL studs like Joss are relatively inexpensive, and everyone has multiple deadball pitchers on their teams.

In the recently completed WISC, the 90M theme was OL rules with an extra 10M.  The league was bereft of offense.  League average was .258.  Average HR/team: 66.  Average runs per team: 661.

Highest run total for a team: 798.  Lowest run total: 494.  These are well below historical norms, and are representative of the 1960s or 1910s.

If anything, the case is closed the other way.
1/25/2011 1:54 PM
I guess it depends on what you play.   

HR's have always been hard to hit in large player pool leagues because of the dead ballers.

I play mostly single season progressives and pretty typically the League Batting Average is in the .270s or .280s.  League ERA's are almost always over 4 and frequently over 5.

I have also seen HR totals in progressive very similar to the steroid era.  Fifty, sixty and seventy home runs seasons are very common.
1/25/2011 2:02 PM
I've done well drafting strong pitching teams. the difference between an $8M SP and a $6M SP with the same innings is bigger than the difference between an $8M hitter and a $6M hitter. The so-called 60/40 split only determines how big the score is, not what level players should be selected. for player selection all I care about is how much I'm giving up to go cheap, and by that standard it's slightly skewed toward pitching. PJ and Big Train may be a waste of money but good pitching still dominates average pitching.
1/25/2011 2:51 PM (edited)
I agree completely with contrarian23.  Deadball pitchers dominate and are relatively inexpensive and, when they're pitching, only the Ruth/Cravath/Cy Williams contingent gets HR's with anything close to the frequency you might expect.  It's common to have entire SIM rotations with aggregate ERA's under 3.00.  How often do you see that in RL?  He articulated the case better than I could, so I will simply second what he said.  Hope the next update tweaks hitters upward a little to achieve parity.   
1/25/2011 3:01 PM
Is it really "common" to have SIM rotations with ERA's under 3?  I don't see that.

In large player pool leagues HR's are hard to hit, singles are easy to hit, and runs aren't that hard to score.   The OL Snapshot says the average ERA is 4.5.   That seems fairly offensive if you ask me.
1/25/2011 3:09 PM
Pretty common.  If I spend more than 50% on pitching in an $80 MM OL, I usually expect my starting rotation to have an ERA of 3.00 or lower, depending of course on the ballparks and composition of other teams around the league, and an OAV of .250 or lower.  This is a "moderately" pitching-heavy team with about a $42/$38 MM pitcher/hitter split.  Starter ERA is around .2.90 and OAV is around .245 and I would consider that more the rule than the exception.  Forgive the sloppy cut and paste.

Pitcher Role % G W-L SV IP ERA OAV WHIP K/9 BB/9 $
Addie Joss '08 (R) 69 (89) 17 10-1 0 119.0 2.34 .235 1.12 2.50 1.82 12.78M
Fred Glade '06 (R)    Starter #2 100 16 1-6 0 90.0 3.70 .250 1.38 2.50 3.30 7.56M
Mordecai Brown '08 (R) 90 (94) 16 9-4 0 110.2 2.68 .234 1.17 1.38 2.36 12.74M
 BULLPEN
Pitcher Role % G W-L SV IP ERA OAV WHIP K/9 BB/9 $
Kyle Matthews '11 (R) 93 (97) 15 1-2 1 13.1 6.75 .413 2.70 2.03 6.75 200K
Elton Chamberlain '88 (R) 100 23 3-1 3 36.2 2.45 .225 1.12 2.95 2.45 6.15M
George McQuillan '07 (R) 88 (94) 11 1-1 6 14.1 3.14 .232 1.19 6.28 2.51 1.91M
Chick Robitaille '04 (R) 100 11 0-2 5 12.1 6.57 .362 2.11 5.11 3.65 2.10M
Jack Quinn '18 (R) 93 (97) 15 2-0 2 23.1 1.54 .176 0.77 5.79 1.16 2.48M
Landon Murdock '11 (R) 99 (100) 13 2-1 1 18.1 9.82 .458 2.73 0.98 2.95 200K
Mike Lee '63
1/25/2011 5:49 PM
TJ, I agree that different themes/caps can change the dynamic.  I assumed - perhaps incorrectly - that Arlen was referring to OL and OL-type leagues. 

1/25/2011 6:18 PM
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Single-season progressive leagues are vastly skewed toward offense right now, and have been for a long time. Sim totals are a long, long way from RL totals.

Here's the SIM ERAs compared to RL ERAs for a progressive. This league has been running for the past year and a half or so.

Year   SIM ERA   RL ERA
1969   4.34   3.61
1970   4.72   3.89
1971   4.23   3.47
1972   3.96   3.26
1973   4.67   3.75
1974   4.94   3.63
1975   4.72   3.71

We use the same number of teams as RL, with below average AAA to make up for the < 25 IP, < 50 PA guys. There are certainly moderately fatigued pitchers pitching in games, but every team uses fatigued hitters, too.


1/25/2011 9:45 PM
We've also had fifteen 50+ HR seasons by various players in the league. That happened zero times during that span IRL.
1/25/2011 9:52 PM
SLB is Irrationally Skewed toward Hitting vs. P Topic

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