New one to me... Topic

I've never informed a player of a redshirt in the past.  Just did it for the first time.  He promptly stopped considering me and declined my scholarship offer.  If I inform him of non-redshirt and re-offer the scholarship and maybe a few minutes will he consider me again?  Or would it be like starting from scratch?  'Cause if so I may have really screwed myself over...
2/17/2011 5:22 PM
It's not starting from scratch, if you inform of non-redshirt you will be OK.

If you are using the inform of RS (which I think is a great tool), you have to make sure to offer additional effort (multiple visits) that cycle as well.
2/17/2011 5:32 PM
you dont always have to do extra effort that cycle - it depends on

a. how much effort you have expended previously - have you overwhelmed him with attention or just barely got him considering you - think of the inform of RS as significant NEGATIVE effort

b. his attitutde toward being red shirted - which determines how BIG the negative effort is

c.  the prestige of your school vs his standing as a recruit - if he is a reach for you, more likely to hurt - if he is delighted that you even phoned him less likely

IF you take off the redshirt and maybe toss him another visit, you are probably okay - unless someone else swoops in right now, attracted by his undecided status and then you could have a battle
2/17/2011 6:05 PM
Posted by girt25 on 2/17/2011 5:32:00 PM (view original):
It's not starting from scratch, if you inform of non-redshirt you will be OK.

If you are using the inform of RS (which I think is a great tool), you have to make sure to offer additional effort (multiple visits) that cycle as well.
this is mostly correct, but not totally. in d2/d3 where you generally don't have much effort into a player, it is definitely the case.

but the way it really works it this (i think, anyway). redshirting is basically negative considering credit. the amount of negative credit varies considerably, guys who are lucky to even be considered by your school might not hardly care at all (not even noticeable), where as some guys are extremely adverse. i think in d2/d3 the worst case you can get is about 3 campus visits of negative credit from the redshirt button.

so, when you redshirt a guy, you need to have extra credit into him so he won't stop considering you (well, assuming you want to make sure that doesn't happen). but it doesn't matter if you put that effort in previously, or at the same time. so for example if you have 10k into a d1 prospect with your d1 team, you can just go ahead and redshirt him, and you will be straight. but if you have say 2 home visits or 12 evals into a player at d2 or d3 (or d1), you really want to give more effort when you redshirt. if you want to play it safe, you can go with 3-4 campus visits of effort (home visits are fine too, just use comparable amount of effort). that is usually what i do. but if its a guy who for example started in the pool of guys you could recruit on cycle 1, you often can get off cheaper, you just have to weigh the risk of him not considering you with the benefit of saving some money.
2/17/2011 6:09 PM
ahh, mets beat me to it... oh well :)
2/17/2011 6:10 PM

strikingly similar comments - we either are right or are both befuddled

2/17/2011 6:22 PM
Thanks guys, I'm informing of non-redshirt and throwing him 10 minutes and we'll see if that gets me back in his good graces.
2/17/2011 6:54 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 2/17/2011 6:54:00 PM (view original):
Thanks guys, I'm informing of non-redshirt and throwing him 10 minutes and we'll see if that gets me back in his good graces.
as long as you didn't have minutes when he was considering you before, the minutes won't make a difference - assuming another school doesn't jump on. if he was willing to consider you before w/o minutes, taking off the redshirt will get you back to that level of credit, and he should consider you again (unless another school put enough effort in). if he rejected your offer, you will have to do that again though.
2/17/2011 9:49 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 2/17/2011 6:54:00 PM (view original):
Thanks guys, I'm informing of non-redshirt and throwing him 10 minutes and we'll see if that gets me back in his good graces.
i am still new, so this is a learning question for me: would this just be a push? Isn't giving mins only a positive effect if the player actually gets to play those mins the 1st season? I mean if mins and start promises only apply to the 1st season, but he is RS'd that season, is that really a positive? is this too much RL logic that is not factored into the sim rationale?
2/17/2011 11:13 PM
Posted by headpirate on 2/17/2011 11:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 2/17/2011 6:54:00 PM (view original):
Thanks guys, I'm informing of non-redshirt and throwing him 10 minutes and we'll see if that gets me back in his good graces.
i am still new, so this is a learning question for me: would this just be a push? Isn't giving mins only a positive effect if the player actually gets to play those mins the 1st season? I mean if mins and start promises only apply to the 1st season, but he is RS'd that season, is that really a positive? is this too much RL logic that is not factored into the sim rationale?
promising minutes or starts automatically removes the redshirt message. similarly, telling redshirt automatically cancels any minutes/start promises.
2/17/2011 11:18 PM
I've got to disagree with this, I have had 2 recruits in the past few months who wouldn't accept calls, visits or anything after I informed of the redshirt.  Didn't matter what I tried to do, they didn't want to hear from me.
2/18/2011 10:09 AM
Posted by cburton23 on 2/18/2011 10:09:00 AM (view original):
I've got to disagree with this, I have had 2 recruits in the past few months who wouldn't accept calls, visits or anything after I informed of the redshirt.  Didn't matter what I tried to do, they didn't want to hear from me.
Did you take the RS off?  I've had that too, where they stopped taking any calls or HVs, but they always turn out fine if I inform of non-redshirt.
2/18/2011 10:12 AM
No, I didn't want him if I couldn't redshirt him.  I only want guys who are about the name on the front of the jersey.

With that said one's scout report said he was a team player, always rode the bus.
2/18/2011 10:22 AM
Just out of curiosity, what's the rest of the context?  That is, was anybody else recruiting them?  What part of the recruiting period are we talking about (i.e. 1st cycle, last day, etc.)?  What was your prestige and division?  Were the recruits projected at the same division as yours or were they pulldowns or drop downs?  How much effort had you put into them?  If this is DI were they ranked and what was the ranking and/or stars?
2/18/2011 10:31 AM
One was DI one was DII.  Both prestiges were A- at the time.  The DII guy was a pulldown, but not a huge stretch.  Took me 4-5 cycles to pull him, probably 3K into him.  I think it was 10 scouts or so and 3 HVs 1 CV.  The DI guy was a 3Star.  I can't remember the breakdown of visits but I was about 9K in.  Both guys at the time I was the only one they were considering.  After I dropped off the DII kid took a few cycles before considering another school that I think was a B prestige.  The DI kid started considering another couple schools the next cycle.
2/18/2011 10:43 AM
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