Diamonds in the Rough Topic

agentverde
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I'm sure this is a broken record and a bunch of people have posted on it, but the DITRs in HD are just beyond awful. In real life, gems are found late in the draft fairly frequently: Don Mattingly, Ryne Sandberg, Albert Pujols, Greg Maddux, Roy Oswalt, Mike Piazza, Dan Uggla and Mike Lowell were all drafted after the 10th round (most were far later). In HD, it's virtually impossible to get a decent ML player after the 3rd round, and there's absolutely no possibility of finding a player on par with Pujols or Maddux.

Improving DITRs would go a long way in improving confidence in the HD product. My suggestion would be to tie results to scouting...teams with high HS and College (and even Advance) scouting budgets should be more likely to uncover DITRs. It'd add strategy.
3/18/2011 12:06 PM
tecwrg
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HD is Hoops Dynasty.  Hardball Dynasty is HBD.

I don't think anybody is really lacking confidence in the product because of the DITR process.

Plus there already is a strategy to uncovering DITR's.  If you're not aware of it, then maybe you need to understand it a bit better rather than asking for it to be "fixed".

3/18/2011 1:09 PM
agentverde
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Really? You like the DITR setup?

I'm not someone who complains about WIS, for the most part. I love the products they put out. I think the product could be improved with DITRs who reflect real life. I've never met anyone who wanted to quit the game because of DITRs, but I've also never met someone who like the DITR setup.

Here's my point: in real life, prospects drafted in late rounds can become players like Albert Pujols and Greg Maddux. As far as I understand it, this cannot happen in HBD (good point there, by the way...those are the two Dynasty games I play, and I get them mixed up). Have you ever seen it happen? Every DITR i've seen in 15 seasons in Feller has been a mediocre to serviceable ML player, at best, and that's IF they're able to reach their new projected ratings.

As for a strategy to uncovering them, I was unaware that was possible. It still wouldn't change the talent level of the DITRs though, would it? Again, if you can tell me DITRs who've reached HOF level skills, I'll totally back off my point.
3/18/2011 1:16 PM
MikeT23
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What you've done in three quick posts was ask for "MORE, BETTER!!!" without making a trade-off.

As I said in one of your other threads, there are early round flops in MLB.   HBD only provides that via injury or owner dumbassery.   If the current set-up allows for 50 90+ players and 75 80+ players, you dilute the value of those players by producing more players who fall into that rating category.   If there are 200 90+ players, an 80+ player is the current 62 rated player. 

3/18/2011 1:19 PM
MikeT23
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Crap.  Incomplete thought.

As for the trade-off, I don't want a series of early round flops so I can get Pujols in round 17.   I'm fine with doing the work to get my good players rather than waiting on Lady Chance to deal me a surprise in the 17th round.
3/18/2011 1:22 PM
agentverde
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Posted by MikeT23 on 3/18/2011 1:19:00 PM (view original):

What you've done in three quick posts was ask for "MORE, BETTER!!!" without making a trade-off.

As I said in one of your other threads, there are early round flops in MLB.   HBD only provides that via injury or owner dumbassery.   If the current set-up allows for 50 90+ players and 75 80+ players, you dilute the value of those players by producing more players who fall into that rating category.   If there are 200 90+ players, an 80+ player is the current 62 rated player. 

Sorry, I thought the trade-off was inherent and didn't need mentioning. I don't want there to be 200 90+ players, so yes, some players would not reach their potential.

As for a luck factor, I already mentioned I think DITRs should be tied to scouting, so players with a high scouting budget received more and better DITRs. "Luck" as you define it, is a huge part of WIS anyway. I fail to see how making the game more like real life in this instance makes it a worse product.
3/18/2011 1:35 PM
MikeT23
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If it were tied to ADV, I'd have no problem with "more, better" DITR.   Anything else is just something for nothing.   Not a fan of something for nothing. 
3/18/2011 1:40 PM
MikeT23
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FWIW, I suggested(quite some time ago) that DITR be tied to peformance(team and individual) and coaching. 

Abbreviated version:
Only players on teams with winning records at the specific level are eligible.
Only teams with the top half of coaches(core rating for pitching/hitting) are eligible.
Only players in the top 5 of specific statistical categories are eligible.
Only players at the appropriate level(so owners can't hold players back to lead statistical categories) are eligible.

Give players who qualify significant ratings bumps.   Meaning the core minimums for a BL player can be reached.
3/18/2011 1:46 PM
agentverde
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Posted by MikeT23 on 3/18/2011 1:46:00 PM (view original):
FWIW, I suggested(quite some time ago) that DITR be tied to peformance(team and individual) and coaching. 

Abbreviated version:
Only players on teams with winning records at the specific level are eligible.
Only teams with the top half of coaches(core rating for pitching/hitting) are eligible.
Only players in the top 5 of specific statistical categories are eligible.
Only players at the appropriate level(so owners can't hold players back to lead statistical categories) are eligible.

Give players who qualify significant ratings bumps.   Meaning the core minimums for a BL player can be reached.
I like where you're going with this, though I don't think I'd link things to team success...the Yankees don't have the best farm system in the Bigs, you know?
3/18/2011 1:50 PM
tecwrg
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I recently saw, within the past week or so, a 17th round pick who had pretty decent career stats.  Over 500 HR's IIRC, and he wasn't just a one-dimensional "100 power, little anything else" kind of guy.  He seems to be well-rounded offensively.  I assume he benefitted from multiple DITR's.  Can't find him right now, but I'll keep looking.
3/18/2011 1:50 PM
agentverde
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Posted by tecwrg on 3/18/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
I recently saw, within the past week or so, a 17th round pick who had pretty decent career stats.  Over 500 HR's IIRC, and he wasn't just a one-dimensional "100 power, little anything else" kind of guy.  He seems to be well-rounded offensively.  I assume he benefitted from multiple DITR's.  Can't find him right now, but I'll keep looking.
That would be great if you could find him. I do believe he exists, and that it's possible, but I don't think it's possible on the same level as it is in real life. I'm generally of the mind that the only ML-level prospects you can get in HBD are in the first 3 rounds, or as International FAs. In real life, you could take a flyer on a guy in late rounds and he could become the greatest hitter of his generation (Pujols).
3/18/2011 1:54 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by agentverde on 3/18/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/18/2011 1:46:00 PM (view original):
FWIW, I suggested(quite some time ago) that DITR be tied to peformance(team and individual) and coaching. 

Abbreviated version:
Only players on teams with winning records at the specific level are eligible.
Only teams with the top half of coaches(core rating for pitching/hitting) are eligible.
Only players in the top 5 of specific statistical categories are eligible.
Only players at the appropriate level(so owners can't hold players back to lead statistical categories) are eligible.

Give players who qualify significant ratings bumps.   Meaning the core minimums for a BL player can be reached.
I like where you're going with this, though I don't think I'd link things to team success...the Yankees don't have the best farm system in the Bigs, you know?
Team success is in attempt to do two things:

1.  Keep the number of DITR limited.   You don't want 70 players suddenly becoming BL material every season.   It will dilute the talent pool.
2.  Encourage owners to maintain their minors.   If you're not winning games, you're not paying attention.  If you're not paying attention, you're not getting a benefit for your lack of concern.
3/18/2011 1:54 PM
MikeT23
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Anyway, I have no problem with owners who are "doing the right thing" getting rewarded with better players.  I'd like to see all-stars at every level getting a 1 point bump across the board(assuming they're at the proper level based on experience).  I'd like to see award winners getting bumps under the same circumstances.   Players on minor league WS winners(proper level players) getting bumps.   

I don't like random, something for nothing bumps. 
3/18/2011 2:02 PM
MikeT23
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An All-Star who won a Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, MVP and a WS could get a 5 point bump across the board.    That would help them reach/exceed projections/potential.    And it would give owners a reason to pay more attention.
3/18/2011 2:04 PM
jimmystick
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I had an idea some odd years ago that I thought satisfied both sides of the DITR argument, but it didn't go over well when I posted it.  The gist of it was that before the draft any player with a possibility of becoming a DITR would be marked as such.  You would see very high projections on them and they could be taken very high in the draft.  They would progress slowly at first, then, 1-3 seasons later, they'd either plateau (bust) or skyrocket in progressions.  The people who want first round busts and 17th round Pujols could choose to draft these guys.  Those who like the current system could choose to ignore these players.  Since they'd be marked in some way prior to and after the draft, you would know which players were which.
3/18/2011 2:09 PM
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