Fouling logic for half-court press is wack. Topic

In a previous post to this forum ( http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?TopicID=438659&TopicsTimeframe=180 ) I gave an example of how the logic that determines whether a possession ends in a foul is problematic. Though I've continued to notice this issue, I want to provide two more examples that highlight my point. Similarly, they are post-season games from the same team previously used.

My team (Mount Union):


Name Yr. Pos. A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU FT TOT
Kevin Benson Sr. PG 57 84 1 55 4 31 46 57 38 87 99 56 B- 615
James Patel Sr. PG 62 73 2 64 4 13 89 85 60 86 86 54 B 678
Jeffrey Burleigh Jr. PG 61 70 17 78 13 17 36 62 67 28 71 54 B 574
David Sung Jr. PG 53 69 2 59 4 17 50 49 51 58 79 73 C+ 564
Kevin Bowen Jr. SG 55 75 3 49 28 29 71 66 33 86 75 51 B+ 621
Casey Miller Jr. SG 50 57 16 34 3 1 88 47 35 49 79 48 B+ 507
Howard Cogdell So. SF 47 46 45 39 18 21 42 27 42 30 63 56 B 476
James Copes Jr. PF 32 32 88 27 69 86 1 15 12 48 88 27 C- 525
Roger Hatton Sr. C 57 22 87 44 80 39 2 17 35 85 80 50 C 598
Charles Manfredi Sr. C 44 31 93 44 85 79 1 30 18 66 74 54 B- 619
Ralph Johnson So. C 29 33 71 54 57 15 22 23 23 50 68 57 C- 502
Randy Hanson Fr. C 45 17 67 47 54 69 3 12 1 71 75 35 D 496
Averages - - 49 51 41 50 35 35 38 41 35 62 78 51 - 565

Name Yr. Pos. Flex Motion Triangle Fastbreak Man Zone Press
Kevin Benson Sr. PG D- A+ D- D- C- A A
James Patel Sr. PG D- A+ D- D- D- A+ A
Jeffrey Burleigh Jr. PG F B F F B C+ B+
David Sung Jr. PG C- A- D- D- D- A- A
Kevin Bowen Jr. SG C A- D- D- D- A A
Casey Miller Jr. SG D- A D- C- C A A+
Howard Cogdell So. SF C B D- D- C- B B+
James Copes Jr. PF C- A- D- D- D- A- A-
Roger Hatton Sr. C D- A+ D- D- C- A A
Charles Manfredi Sr. C D- A D- D- D- A A+
Ralph Johnson So. C C B+ D- D- D- B+ A-
Randy Hanson Fr. C C- B- F F F B B-

1st Example (Chapman):

Name Yr. Pos. A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU FT TOT
James Cooley So. PG 58 84 1 54 3 1 35 66 57 49 80 70 C+ 558
Lawrence Rentz So. PG 58 79 13 72 14 1 74 42 40 70 85 68 C+ 616
Wayne Hill Jr. SG 65 69 7 76 8 15 37 56 34 64 79 57 C- 567
Jeffrey Ewing Fr. SG 60 61 5 60 3 8 23 63 50 50 70 38 C- 491
Daniel Marshall Sr. SF 66 46 46 48 38 58 67 40 38 58 74 56 B- 635
Dale Rhoton Sr. SF 75 68 36 67 19 50 57 47 50 58 75 97 C 699
Johnny Rose Sr. PF 54 41 74 65 77 72 47 39 36 51 79 76 C 711
Allen Towery Sr. PF 42 18 90 29 78 47 36 14 24 48 73 33 C+ 532
Jonathan Zusman Jr. C 57 33 86 59 62 79 11 21 20 74 83 68 B- 653
Robert Ludwig So. C 69 21 56 71 48 60 6 2 27 31 58 46 C- 495
Joseph Higgins Fr. C 57 15 58 60 36 35 8 13 36 26 71 62 D+ 477
David Penn Fr. PF 27 8 7 17 25 27 5 22 2 43 75 72 C 330
Averages - - 57 45 40 56 34 38 34 35 34 52 75 62 - 564

Name Yr. Pos. Flex Motion Triangle Fastbreak Man Zone Press
Wayne Hill Jr. SG D- D- A C- C- A+ D-
Allen Towery Sr. PF D- D+ A D- C- A+ D-
Jonathan Zusman Jr. C D- D- A D- D- A D-
Lawrence Rentz So. PG D- D- A- C- C- A- C-
Johnny Rose Sr. PF D- D- A- D- C+ B+ D-
James Cooley So. PG D- D- B+ D- C- B+ C-
Jeffrey Ewing Fr. SG D- C- B+ D- D- A- D-
Daniel Marshall Sr. SF D- B B+ D- B+ A- D-
Dale Rhoton Sr. SF D- D- B+ B+ B A- B
Robert Ludwig So. C D- D B D- C B+ D-
David Penn Fr. PF F F B F C- B- D-
Joseph Higgins Fr. C C- F C+ F D+ B- F

In this game Chapman used a 2-3 (-3) defense and slowdown tempo for both halfs and I used a half-court press/2-3 (0) for both halfs as well. Despite my advantage in speed and IQ, along with them using a slowdown tempo, we committed 23 fouls over the course of the game, which isn't unrealistic considering that the game went into double overtime. However, my opponent having comparable IQ's and only a little better team defensive rating, fouled 17 total times and didn't commit their seventh foul of the senond half until the 2nd overtime although using a -3 defensive positioning against a faster team using a normal tempo. Luckily, my opponent only went 13-23 in FTs.

2nd Example (Rochester):

Name Yr. Pos. A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU FT TOT
Jesse Williams Sr. PG 66 77 1 69 3 18 36 73 60 47 84 65 B+ 599
Jeffrey Elders Jr. PG 51 64 2 52 2 1 56 57 73 36 88 26 C+ 508
Edward Donohue Fr. PG 42 71 1 27 1 23 52 65 43 30 72 39 C 466
Samuel Cyr So. SG 51 51 4 49 2 40 90 51 56 43 66 45 B- 548
Michael Mansour So. SG 60 71 45 67 17 47 20 38 21 28 75 32 C- 521
Ryan Gray Fr. SG 47 68 12 35 16 17 38 45 43 89 82 92 C+ 584
Derrick Thomason Sr. SF 61 49 56 69 26 88 58 41 43 75 77 83 C+ 726
Bryan Hosley Jr. SF 62 47 52 77 36 66 40 58 48 73 83 46 B+ 688
Michael Thomas Sr. C 57 25 94 80 81 31 17 34 31 89 80 58 B- 677
Peter Maxwell Jr. C 52 31 87 15 46 91 15 20 19 49 66 77 C 568
Percy Taylor Jr. C 70 38 70 79 76 40 1 3 46 67 84 34 B- 608
Curtis Kerns So. C 63 24 74 59 62 9 7 27 26 58 72 55 C- 536
Averages - - 57 51 42 56 31 39 36 43 42 57 77 54 - 586

Name Yr. Pos. Flex Motion Triangle Fastbreak Man Zone Press
Jesse Williams Sr. PG D- A C D- A- B- D+
Jeffrey Elders Jr. PG D- A- D- D- A- D- D-
Edward Donohue Fr. PG F B- D F B- D+ D+
Samuel Cyr So. SG D- A- D- C- A- C- D-
Michael Mansour So. SG C- B+ F F B+ C- F
Ryan Gray Fr. SG D- A- D- D- A- D- D-
Derrick Thomason Sr. SF D+ A+ D- D- A- B- D+
Bryan Hosley Jr. SF D- A+ D- D- A B- C
Michael Thomas Sr. C C- A+ D- D- A B D-
Peter Maxwell Jr. C C- A- D- D- A- D- C-
Percy Taylor Jr. C D- A D+ D- A D- C-
Curtis Kerns So. C D- B+ D- C+ A- D- C-

In this match-up my opponent used a man (-3) defense and slowdown tempo for both halfs, while I used a half-court press/2-3 (0) for the first and a half-court press/2-3 (-2) for the second half. Although only having nine eligible players (Cyr, Gray, and Kerns were ineligible) and using a -3 defensive positioning against a team with comparable IQs and speed, my opponent committed 18 fouls; while we committed 24 fouls (3 intentionally) despite the similar IQs and slowdown offense. Unfortunately for me, my opponent won by going 27-33 in FTs, despite my team dominating both offensively and defensively.


Given all the factors previously mentioned, I don't think that simply running a half-court press should be the factor that is most likely responsible for causing this disparity in fouls.

Also, all of my players fatigue settings are fairly fresh, except Manfredi's.
  
9/7/2011 7:31 AM
You would likely get more responses to something like this if you put it into the appropriate forum... i.e. the main HD forum. I don't think many ever even look at this one and if something is really off that would be a better spot...
9/8/2011 1:25 PM
Fouling logic for half-court press is wack. Topic

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