Can You Explain This Prestige Drop? Topic

drsnell
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This is the last five seasons of my Texas Southern team in Smith.  Prestige is based on the last four years, so I included five seasons so you could see what dropped out of the prestige window. 

The Mountain West Conference is currently at C+ prestige -- and the conference was at C+ in Season 52 as well. 

53) 24-9  10-2  8-6  6-1  11-5  13  18  B+  CT Champ, NT (Elite 8)
52) 22-10 9-2  8-7  5-1  10-6  NR  20  A-  CT Champ, NT (2nd Rd)
51) 28-4  12-1  11-2  5-1  16-0  6  11  A-  Conf Champ, CT Champ, NT (Sweet 16)
50) 24-6  11-0  11-4  2-2  14-2  18  13  A-  Conf Champ, NT 2nd Rd
49) 25-8  10-3  9-4  6-1  11-5  20  28  A-  CT Champ, NT (Sweet 16)

I wrote to CS and they said, "We understand that the prestige system isn't perfect, but it works as it's currently designed, so we're no longer investigating specific situations."  They also pointed me to the page that tells me what D1 prestige is based on, which states: 


*****

RPI Rank
WIS rank (the system used for the Top 25 rankings)
Whether the team was conference champion
Whether the team made the PIT
PIT wins
Whether the team made the National Tournament
National Tournament wins
All of that success is compiled and weighted and factored in along with the following items to come up with the school's new prestige. Whether the team won the National Championship
Current prestige
The school's traditional power (does not change)
Success of the school's conference relative to the average in the world
Success of the school (as described above) relative to the average in the world

******

Based on this criteria it seems to me that TSU's prestige should have gone up, if anything.  I figured at the end of Season 52 I was just barely hanging on to my A-, but I thought Season 53 would fix that.  Am I being crazy?  Any thoughts on why this team's prestige should go down?

10/5/2011 3:22 PM
sol_phenom3
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I can't explain it and don't understand it at all.  Hopefully with the draft you'll boost back up to A-, but it's still ridiculous for you to have dropped after this season.  I could understand some baseline prestige bs holding you back from leaping to an A, but there's no way after an ELITE EIGHT showing you should drop down to a B+ prestige. 
10/5/2011 4:11 PM
zhawks
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If the conference as a whole went to a lower C+ and you were barely hanging onto an A- then yes this makes sense.
10/5/2011 4:15 PM
drsnell
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That's all I can figure, zhawks.  And yet, I would have thought that a slight decrease conference-wise would have been trumped by TSU's season 53 being so superior to S52 -- and to S49, which dropped out of consideration.  (And if you take TSU out of the equation, the conference's prestige change was flat -- 3 schools went up 1/3 of a letter grade, one school dropped 1/3 and one school dropped 2/3.)
10/5/2011 4:36 PM
ryrun
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"We understand the prestige system is flawed but we don't feel like working on it so go read the FAQ's one more time.  And please remember to buy more seasons."
10/5/2011 4:39 PM
zhawks
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Posted by drsnell on 10/5/2011 4:36:00 PM (view original):
That's all I can figure, zhawks.  And yet, I would have thought that a slight decrease conference-wise would have been trumped by TSU's season 53 being so superior to S52 -- and to S49, which dropped out of consideration.  (And if you take TSU out of the equation, the conference's prestige change was flat -- 3 schools went up 1/3 of a letter grade, one school dropped 1/3 and one school dropped 2/3.)
If you continue to push cs... my guess is their response would be 'you are a very high B+' - well no crap. I don't think this is as crazy of an example as I have seen before, but it does show the ability that conference prestige has to affect an individual schools prestige.
10/5/2011 4:52 PM
zhawks
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Posted by ryrun on 10/5/2011 4:39:00 PM (view original):
"We understand the prestige system is flawed but we don't feel like working on it so go read the FAQ's one more time.  And please remember to buy more seasons."
+99999
10/5/2011 4:52 PM
dahsdebater
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You also had that 6/11 season drop further down.  Even with the S16 exit that's the strongest prestige school on your 5-year resume - top 10 (ish) finishes definitely seem to bump prestige fairly significantly.  If you look at my Rochester team history, I jumped to an A+ after a 5/5 season in spite of the fact that I only made the 2nd round of the NT.  Typically 2nd round won't get you an A+; back to back S16's with other teams have failed to reach A+.  But that high rank/rpi will really bump you up.  Obviously D1 is a little different with baseline and conference prestige, but I believe the independent components of prestige are treated identically.  In my experience, that 13/18/E8 season is probably not quite as valuable for prestige as the 6/11/S16, and that probably played a role.
10/5/2011 6:44 PM
dacj501
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good to see that the admittedly broken rankings system plays such an important role in the nearly as broken prestige system...
10/5/2011 8:00 PM
tkimble
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It was the 9 losses.
10/5/2011 9:46 PM
metsmax
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you have to go back further - a good elite 8 season came off the prestige window....would help explain a bit....also did you have anyone drafted this season or last?....cant explain, but as the season 47 final four and season 48 elite eight dropped off, the prestige was getting hit a bit

53 drsnell 24-9 10-2 8-6 6-1 11-5 13 18 B+ CT Champion
NT (Elite 8)
52 drsnell 22-10 9-2 8-7 5-1 10-6 20 A- CT Champion
NT (2nd Round)
51 drsnell 28-4 12-1 11-2 5-1 16-0 6 11 A- Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Sweet 16)
50 drsnell 24-6 11-0 11-4 2-2 14-2 18 13 A- Conf Champion
NT At-large Bid
NT (2nd Round)
49 drsnell 25-8 10-3 9-4 6-1 11-5 20 28 A- CT Champion
NT (Sweet 16)
48 drsnell 30-3 13-0 11-2 6-1 15-1 7 7 A- Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Elite 8)
47 drsnell 33-1 13-0 13-0 7-1 16-0 2 5 B+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Final Four)
46 drsnell 21-8 11-2 9-4 1-2 13-3 23 24 B NT At-large Bid
NT (2nd Round)
10/6/2011 6:19 AM
drsnell
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Thanks for the insight, guys.  I think maybe I value the tournament run a little more than the prestige system does. dahsdebater, that's an interesting idea about how much the final rankings are important -- looking back through my teams' histories, I think that may very well be true.  Also, the knowledge base page (#779) says that winning pct. is used to determine prestige in D2 and D3, but only the factors I listed earlier are looked at for D1.  I do think that tkimble's idea about it coming down to losses seems reasonable -- at the very least my WIS ranking would have been higher at the end if I'd had a few less losses.

metsmax, it does state explicitly that only the last four seasons are used to determine prestige, so my S48 E8 and S47 F4 years seem well outside the window at this point.  (I wish they did still have some influence.)



10/10/2011 1:43 PM
metsmax
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S48 and S47 are now outside the window - but they were in the window when you got up to A- - as they fell off, the A- in S52 may have been a smidge lower than the A- in season 51.  Now, what happened in 53?  suppose as folks speculate it may have been a conference thing?  But, it is a rolling 4 years and you need to compare the 4 year windows for different seasons

10/10/2011 3:17 PM
Can You Explain This Prestige Drop? Topic
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