Work Ethic question. Topic

29707
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If I have a player that has a work ethic of around 20, and I start him will he still improve quite a bit? Thanks
11/22/2011 3:24 PM
toysboys
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depends on his potentials.  I'd say you could realistically see him go up about 30 points if you start him all games and average 25 minutes.

11/22/2011 3:27 PM
tianyi7886
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All based on playing time. I had a player with 27 WE gain 70 points in his FR season by starting every game and playing 25mpg. With 20 WE, if you start him every game and give him alot of min (more than 15, preferably 20+) he can gain 45-50 his FR season. 
11/22/2011 3:33 PM
rsvphr
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Plus see increases in his WE.

11/22/2011 4:56 PM
rednation58
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so is WE even that important when considering a recruit? What if I have a guy with 9 WE? or even 1? Would it be just plain dumb to redshirt a guy like that even though he may have enormous potential? 
11/23/2011 8:16 PM
pjbrankin
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I would almost never recruit a guy with that low of a WE. At DIII I tried to stay at 20+ WE.

Yes, it would essentially be pointless to redshirt a guy with a WE <10.
11/23/2011 8:23 PM
usc4life
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Posted by rednation58 on 11/23/2011 8:16:00 PM (view original):
so is WE even that important when considering a recruit? What if I have a guy with 9 WE? or even 1? Would it be just plain dumb to redshirt a guy like that even though he may have enormous potential? 
WE is VERY important. The examples above are the exception, not the rule. Recruits with a WE of about 25 or below will improve very slowly and there's a good chance they won't reach their full potential by senior year.

I'm not trying to scare you away from low WE players; I just don't want you to sign a class full of 15 WE recruits and expect them to be great
11/23/2011 8:24 PM
tianyi7886
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My bare minimum is 18, and that's only if I was sure I can give him alot of minutes right away (think complete rebuild). Alot of playing time can accelerate growth and mitigate poor WE, it cannot mitigate horrendous WE. 
11/23/2011 8:33 PM
rednation58
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So when you say exception to the rule you're saying there's no exact science in increasing WE. 70 point gain is huge! But is it just the luck of the draw? Is there a way to scout this growth potential maybe through psych evaluations?
11/23/2011 10:18 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by rednation58 on 11/23/2011 10:18:00 PM (view original):
So when you say exception to the rule you're saying there's no exact science in increasing WE. 70 point gain is huge! But is it just the luck of the draw? Is there a way to scout this growth potential maybe through psych evaluations?
He started with 27 WE, went up to 34 by the end of the season and played 25mpg. The 25mpg pretty much explains most of his growth. 
11/23/2011 10:30 PM
a_in_the_b
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Actually, if I have a 25 WE recruit, I will often redshirt them;  they still do improve that season, albeit slowly, and then by their redshirt freshman year, their IQ's are high enough that I can give them major minutes/starts without it hurting too much.

11/23/2011 10:38 PM
rednation58
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 11/23/2011 10:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rednation58 on 11/23/2011 10:18:00 PM (view original):
So when you say exception to the rule you're saying there's no exact science in increasing WE. 70 point gain is huge! But is it just the luck of the draw? Is there a way to scout this growth potential maybe through psych evaluations?
He started with 27 WE, went up to 34 by the end of the season and played 25mpg. The 25mpg pretty much explains most of his growth. 
So would you say this is standard with all recruits you've had or were you lucky to get a player to improve so drastically throughout his career? I read something in the FAQ that said WE growth depends on the player.
11/23/2011 10:55 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by rednation58 on 11/23/2011 10:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 11/23/2011 10:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rednation58 on 11/23/2011 10:18:00 PM (view original):
So when you say exception to the rule you're saying there's no exact science in increasing WE. 70 point gain is huge! But is it just the luck of the draw? Is there a way to scout this growth potential maybe through psych evaluations?
He started with 27 WE, went up to 34 by the end of the season and played 25mpg. The 25mpg pretty much explains most of his growth. 
So would you say this is standard with all recruits you've had or were you lucky to get a player to improve so drastically throughout his career? I read something in the FAQ that said WE growth depends on the player.
It's not really luck, because you should know how many high potentials a player have when you recruit them. 70 point gain for a FR/SO isn't extraordinary. I started rebuilding a D1 program 2 seasons ago in Phelan and went with the same approach, recruited a bunch of players with alot of high potentials and played them all 25min+. The guy with 80 WE was +118 in his FR season while another with 28 WE was +65. If you are committed to playing a guy alot of minutes in his FR year, the subpar WE shouldn't be that much of a hindrance. 
11/23/2011 11:17 PM
rednation58
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Ok. So a direct question. I have a recruit I am interested in. A pg and he has 9 WE. His passing and BH are already in the 80s and he's high potential in per but he's in the 40s. He's high potential for def but he's in the 20s. I haven't scouted him yet but his cores are either great already or he's high potential in them. His only real negative rating in my opinion is his low ATH and low potential for growth there. If I sign him he'd be a RS but his WE is well below what u all recommend. Would you take the chance on him?
11/24/2011 12:16 AM
tianyi7886
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9 WE,the player won't grow past 25 per season, and he's going to lose a lot of points in the off season. 
11/24/2011 12:31 AM
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