New Postseason requirements a joke? Topic

worthy14sure
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So just joined Knight with a couple of buddies. Grabbed a good team and had a season of 18-11, 70 RPI, 43 SOS and did not make the PIT! Was beat in CT final when my best player got hurt, but how is that not enough to get a bid????
12/25/2011 5:43 PM
dahsdebater
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I dunno, under the old system that team is a PIT shoe-in.  Of course, my rank #1, RPI #4 team would have been a 1-seed, too, rather than the lowest 2-seed.  I think I deserved somewhere in between.  What really bothers me is that right now I can't put my finger on exactly what it is that makes the decision-engine tick as far as tournament appearances and seeds.
12/25/2011 5:46 PM
rednu
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From the numbers, it looks like you ought to have been in without question. For comparison sake though, who were the 8 seeds in the PIT and what do they look like? 
12/25/2011 6:16 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by dahsdebater on 12/25/2011 5:46:00 PM (view original):
I dunno, under the old system that team is a PIT shoe-in.  Of course, my rank #1, RPI #4 team would have been a 1-seed, too, rather than the lowest 2-seed.  I think I deserved somewhere in between.  What really bothers me is that right now I can't put my finger on exactly what it is that makes the decision-engine tick as far as tournament appearances and seeds.

Games against rpi 1-50 has huge value (even if you lose) under the current system. SoCal teams in knight are pretty much guaranteed to grab all 4 #1 seeds and a few #2 seeds under this system. 

12/25/2011 6:33 PM
girt25
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The reason you didn't make it is because you didn't beat anyone -- 0-6 vs. the top 50, and 1-9 vs. the top 100. In fact, you literally beat one team in the rpi top 125

No offense, but I actually think this is an example of the new system working pretty darn well. The old system basically just slotted PIT teams according to RPI. Apparently this system is smarter and was able to recognize the fact that you basically lost to every decent team you played, and fattened up your W-L strictly against patsies. That wouldn't be enough in real life, and personally, I think it's a good thing that it's no longer enough here.

(And truly no offense intended with these comments -- I know that you're a top-notch coach, and were playing with a roster and schedule not of your own making. I just think the computer got this one right ...)


12/25/2011 6:34 PM
professor17
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From what I've seen, I also like the new system better, even though I've personally gotten burned with a 23-4, 37 RPI team missing the NT. Before, it was easy to make the NT without playing a single quality team by scheduling all decent sim teams on the road (something I was a master of getting an absurdly high RPI by doing). Now it takes a more challenging schedule, which is as it should be. It also seems to have eliminated a lot of those 800-rated teams getting 7-10 seeds, which was really annoying when you were a 1 or 2 seed. My only concern is that teams may be getting a bit too much credit simply for playing (as opposed to beating) a lot of good teams. Seems like a lot of 14-13 type Big 6 schools are getting bids, which I'm not sure I like. 
12/25/2011 9:19 PM
girt25
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prof, I think those schools generally made it before as long as they had the requisite rpi.

And it does seem to me that you need to do more than just play good teams -- you really need to beat some of them. The team in this thread is a good example ... they actually had a very solid SOS (41) and did play a good number of strong teams ... they just didn't beat any of them, and so they got left out.
12/25/2011 9:26 PM
a_in_the_b
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Ok, Girt. . anyone else. . on topic. . .  I am happy to get a NT appearance out of this. . . but I was also shocked to.  Should I have been?  (Team is Drury)

Date Opponent Record RPI SOS Coach Record Against Spread Result  
12/09/11 am New Mexico Highlands 8-20 146 52 lyden21 2-0 even 53-102 w
12/09/11 pm at California, San Diego 14-15 92 35 jmharlow 3-1 -4 87-71 w
12/10/11 am Grand Canyon 8-19 141 41 seabreeze 2-3 -16 56-77 w
12/10/11 pm at Concordia, St. Paul 24-5 45 115 Weena 1-1 -2 91-81 w
12/11/11 am at #9 N. Florida 23-5 44 98 nickjyd 0-3 +2 61-70 l
12/11/11 pm at BYU, Hawaii 15-13 98 53 rick0513 1-0 -2 64-56 w
12/12/11 am C. Washington 18-10 54 48 irishbomber 0-2 -8 95-77 l
12/12/11 pm CSU, Dominguez Hills 1-26 261 114 Sim AI 1-0 -34 57-100 w
12/13/11 am at Bridgeport 8-19 159 39 7gks 1-2 -10 65-61 w
12/13/11 pm at Alaska Anchorage 16-12 121 131 inbayside 1-0 -19 82-62 w
12/14/11 am Off Day                
 
Conference
Date Opponent Record RPI SOS Coach Record Against Spread Result  
12/15/11 am St. Mary's (TX) 19-9 47 45 bjken3 3-91 even 80-79 l
12/15/11 pm W. Florida 23-6 23 23 bakerbarnett 4-49 even 77-70 l
12/16/11 am Off Day                
12/16/11 pm Montevallo 21-8 48 79 wansingk 20-30 even 63-83 w
12/17/11 am at St. Edward's 16-11 63 44 bradriddell 25-63 -3 66-51 w
12/17/11 pm at Lincoln 10-18 171 94 deweycox 38-50 -19 67-48 w
12/18/11 am Rockhurst 18-10 107 174 afatrain 35-56 -1 76-70 l
12/18/11 pm at St. Mary's (TX) 19-9 47 45 bjken3 3-91 -1 64-72 l
12/19/11 am at W. Alabama 10-17 195 186 Sim AI 30-27 -8 107-57 w
12/19/11 pm Oklahoma Panhandle St. 12-17 131 47 gomiami1972 43-46 -9 61-99 w
12/20/11 am at Incarnate Word 5-23 186 15 garmansouth 23-31 -25 73-80 l
12/20/11 pm St. Edward's 16-11 63 44 bradriddell 25-63 even 54-61 w
12/21/11 am Valdosta St. 15-12 102 129 dacj501 10-45 -2 93-78 l
12/21/11 pm Lincoln 10-18 171 94 deweycox 38-50 -11 71-92 w
12/22/11 am at Rockhurst 18-10 107 174 afatrain 35-56 even 66-56 w
12/22/11 pm Off Day                
12/23/11 am at N. Alabama 7-21 194 74 maddog162 26-23 -15 98-71 w
12/23/11 pm at Oklahoma Panhandle St. 12-17 131 47 gomiami1972 43-46 -8 97-92 (OT) w
 
Conference Tournament
Date Opponent Record RPI SOS Coach Record Against Spread Result  
12/24/11 am vs. Incarnate Word 5-23 186 15 garmansouth 23-31 -24 74-63 l
12/25/2011 9:35 PM
professor17
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2 wins vs. Top 50, another 4 against the Top 100. Were you one of the Last 4 In? D2 is always easier to get an at-large bid. I got an at-large with a 60-something RPI once in D2 (under the old system). There are fewer conferences and auto-bids compared to D1 and D3 so there are more at-large spots available.
12/25/2011 9:55 PM (edited)
a_in_the_b
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Was a 15 seed - looks like the lowest 15..  I thought the two losses that I somehow managed against the 5 - 23 team would have hurt me more.  This was just the most wildly inconsistent team I have ever had, so it was kind of hard for me to decode.


12/25/2011 10:17 PM (edited)
a_in_the_b
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I mean, losses to #186 twice, 102 and 107, on the other hand, the two top fifty, four top 100, and almost another top 50 . . .
12/25/2011 10:04 PM
luckyt
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I don't like this new system and I think it will hurt the game.    I think it hurts new coaches in D3.   When a new coach joins the game they generally will lose to the top coaches.  Under the old system they would be rewarded for playing a tough schedule ,even if they lost to  all the top teams they played , as long as the beat all or most of the teams they should of beaten.   Under this system they arn't and I think alot of new coaches will get frustrated and leave. 
12/25/2011 10:26 PM
a_in_the_b
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Posted by luckyt on 12/25/2011 10:26:00 PM (view original):
I don't like this new system and I think it will hurt the game.    I think it hurts new coaches in D3.   When a new coach joins the game they generally will lose to the top coaches.  Under the old system they would be rewarded for playing a tough schedule ,even if they lost to  all the top teams they played , as long as the beat all or most of the teams they should of beaten.   Under this system they arn't and I think alot of new coaches will get frustrated and leave. 
I don't think your McDaniel team would have made it even under the old system.  If it did, it would have been a close - run thing.   Besides.  As it stands you do get rewarded for competitive games against top teams.  Just not nearly as much as with RPI where its almost more important to play tough teams than to win games.


12/25/2011 10:45 PM
luckyt
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It's not my mcdaniel team I was talking about.  It was my Tark team.   I had a  better RPI then the 2 seasons prior where I got at large bids and I ended up being a  PIT team, and one of the last ones to make it.   I was at my parents house with crappy internet service the last 2 weeks and didn't always get to game plan   I lost some conference games I probably wouldn't of because of that so it's my own fault for Mcdaniel to have a bad year.
12/25/2011 10:56 PM
a_in_the_b
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Well, unfortunately, really can't comment on your tark season because I don't have a game log to look at for it any more.  Still, I am definitely in favor of not letting RPI be the end all.


12/25/2011 11:04 PM
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