Can someone explain what categories determine a solid Starting Pitcher vs.
a Relief Pitcher.
4/18/2012 11:17 PM
Stamina -  How deep into a game he can go

Durability - How often he can be used



4/19/2012 12:51 AM
Any pitcher who can throw at least 40 pitches can be a starter. According to the formula I use (Stam*1.3) any pitcher with at least a 31 Stam rating can start a game.
4/19/2012 1:47 AM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
These are a bit arbitrary, and you'll get a different answer depending on whom you ask, but my benchmarks are:

A solid SP ideally has control of 80+, vLh of 60+, vRh of 65+, at least 4 pitches, one of which is in the 80s and the average of which is 50+.  Stam is ideally 24+ and Dur is best at 70+, though I've had plenty of luck at 60+.  None of these numbers (except for the pitch average) is absolute.  Instead, weakness in one area can be remedied by strength in another.  Come to think of it, the vRh is relatively inelastic, too.  There are just too many Rh batters to skimp on that attribute. 

For a solid RP, I would look for control of 80+, vLh and vRh of 70+, and two pitches that average 80+, or three pitches that average 70+.  The prototypical solid RP would have a DUR of 70 and a Stam of 30. 

For both, velocity and gb/fb are important.  A high velocity leads to strike outs, and a high gb/fb leads to more..ahem...groundballs...and fewer homeruns.  I tend to value gb/fb a lot, but I know others who skip over it looking for velocity.  My tendency may be explained by the fact that I usually field a pretty solid infield defense.  If you found a guy who was 70+ in both of those ratings, you could consider yourself lucky.  To my eye, however, if you must sacrifice one, sacrifice velocity.

Despite knowing what's most desirable, it's often hard to get a whole staff of solid pitchers at an affordable price.  If you'd like an example of what you can make work, take a look at my Pheremoniacs' roster right now.  I've made some compromises, but I've been getting pretty solid results (in a division that puts out an MVP on an opponent's team about every other year) for a few seasons now.
4/19/2012 11:49 AM
Posted by boogerlips on 4/19/2012 1:47:00 AM (view original):
Any pitcher who can throw at least 40 pitches can be a starter. According to the formula I use (Stam*1.3) any pitcher with at least a 31 Stam rating can start a game.
No saying that doesn't work for you, but that is insanity!  Wow.

I look first at stamina.  60+ can be a starter.  Usually when I see a stamina of 30-40 I think Setup A or B, and between 45-60 Long relief A or B.  <25 I start thinking closer A or B (although I rarely use closers).  

From there I tend to look at durability, or how quickly they heal back up to full strength.  I have used guys with a stamina of 25-ish as a SUA because they had a durability of 80+ and can throw a lot of innings.  

I try to find enough guys to give me a minimum of three good SP's (2 guys can just eat innings for me).  My most important reliever is always a SuA, and if I can I try to get two studs and pair them both as SuA's.  Another good rule of thumb for me is if I can get good SP4 or SP5 starters....once you get into the playoffs they go to the pen and make it even stronger.  You only really need three starters in the playoffs most of the time.
4/19/2012 12:39 PM

You paint yourself in a corner by excluding 40-50 stamina pitchers from SP.   I cut-off at 50 but will be testing that soon enough because of Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Matt Christensen who I see as a 200 inning pitcher in a couple of seasons.    My Hamilton team has won the most games in the league for 4-5 seasons in a row.   3 of my 5 SP are less than 60 and the other two are 62.    As booger said, a SP has to be capable of 40 pitches.   You may not like a 3 inning starter but that's not to say it can't be effective.

4/19/2012 1:05 PM
I'm a non-traditional player and like to try things that are not always per the normal roles.  The most important thing to me, as Mike says, is that good pitchers are good pitchers.  You can overcome slight weaknesses in some ratings with strengths in others.  For example, assuming numbers aren't too low, great control can overcome slightly weaker splits.  Great splits can overcome slightly weaker control.  GB/FB matters relative to park and defense.  Velocity can help, but won't kill you if it's fairly low (but not extremely low).

Great durability can make up for lower stamina, and vice versa - especially when used in conjuction with pitch counts.

I've used plenty of "starters" as "relievers" and plenty of relievers as starters.

If I can't build my staff the way I "want" to, I build it based on what I can get, and then leverage the best pitchers to get the most important innings.  (Like never, ever slot a great reliever as a "closer").  Sometimes that takes creative managing.  I also don't care one lick about who gets wins, saves or any other individual statistic.

MLB roles in real life depend on personality.  If you change roles in MLB, it affects a player's perception of their performance.  If you play with the roles in HBD, the numbers are not affected.

Leverage is king.  Keeping your best pitchers pitching the most fatigue-free innings is all that matters.

4/19/2012 1:23 PM
If you are going to use a guy with low STA, you better have a solid bullpen that can log a lot of innings. Many different combos of ratings can be effective.  I have a guy with splits in the 50's, decent GB/FB, but he has very good CNTRL and 3 very good pitches. He has been an effective SP/LR over the years. <a style="color:black;" href="http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=1487751" target="_blank">John Tanaka</a>.  I have another guy, <a style="color:black;" href="http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=3104379" target="_blank">Peter Barker</a> who has great splits and 3 good pitches(of 4) but has not had nearly the same success. He has 53 CNTRL and great GB/FB.  Neither throws hard. So I guess Control factors in pretty significantly.
4/19/2012 4:32 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/19/2012 1:05:00 PM (view original):

You paint yourself in a corner by excluding 40-50 stamina pitchers from SP.   I cut-off at 50 but will be testing that soon enough because of Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Matt Christensen who I see as a 200 inning pitcher in a couple of seasons.    My Hamilton team has won the most games in the league for 4-5 seasons in a row.   3 of my 5 SP are less than 60 and the other two are 62.    As booger said, a SP has to be capable of 40 pitches.   You may not like a 3 inning starter but that's not to say it can't be effective.

Your thinking about using Christensen as a SP some day?  with only 2 pitches?  Isnt that asking for trouble?  I suppose if both pitches were 99s it might not be such a bad thing but....

No question this dude will be an inning eater SUA, but a starter would be crazy me thinks...
4/20/2012 3:54 PM
Assuming he's one of my best pitchers according to my formula(which takes into account 4 pitches on a declining scale), yep.    40-45 PC will be 3 innings.  
4/20/2012 4:03 PM
Posted by greeny9 on 4/20/2012 3:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/19/2012 1:05:00 PM (view original):

You paint yourself in a corner by excluding 40-50 stamina pitchers from SP.   I cut-off at 50 but will be testing that soon enough because of Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Matt Christensen who I see as a 200 inning pitcher in a couple of seasons.    My Hamilton team has won the most games in the league for 4-5 seasons in a row.   3 of my 5 SP are less than 60 and the other two are 62.    As booger said, a SP has to be capable of 40 pitches.   You may not like a 3 inning starter but that's not to say it can't be effective.

Your thinking about using Christensen as a SP some day?  with only 2 pitches?  Isnt that asking for trouble?  I suppose if both pitches were 99s it might not be such a bad thing but....

No question this dude will be an inning eater SUA, but a starter would be crazy me thinks...
I know what you mean . . . if Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Malcolm Tucker only had a third pitch, he might have been halfway decent.
4/20/2012 7:39 PM
But he'd make a decent LR/SU guy.
4/20/2012 8:32 PM
Ok, this is interesting.  How would you use Rolando Calderon?  He is set as a SuA but I feel I can get more innings out of him.
4/20/2012 8:50 PM
Your team ERA last season was 3.75, Calderon is a career 4.20. No question you can get 200+IP out of him, but how does that help?
4/20/2012 9:15 PM
12 Next ▸

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.