In looking back through PBPs, I'm not seeing any references whatsoever to double teams in the half court set over the course of a season.  You're not allowed to double team a player when running the full court press, because supposedly you are already trapping in the half court set.  But when going back over a full season of PBPs, I'm not seeing any reference to turnovers generated in the half court set from a double-team, trap or press.  Anyone have any idea what's up with that?

in my opinion, no. i havent seen any evidence that the HCP does a damn thing. i used to count the turnovers from double-team, trap, press - a while back - it was under 1 per game, in the game logs. which may not reflect the full impact but i checked like the entirety of the 15 teams i could find who played, and saw no higher turnovers than i would expect, from a non-press set, at least not more than ~1 per game. i thought my margin of error was maybe ~1 per game back then and i saw maybe ~.5 per game increase. so i guess it could be a little more than 1, but i really doubt its much more, if at all. just not worth it, IMO, costs you stamina. screw practicing it - even if you practice - id go straight press or straight non-press, with that IQ. just not worth the lower fatigue for 1 extra turnover (woo!)

So essentially a press/man to man defense wouldnt exactly create many more turnovers than a man to man?

My question is really about once a team breaks the initial press.  When you run a FCP, the Hoops 101 and other places state that the team continues to trap in the half court set, double-teaming whoever has the ball.  I'm not sure I believe that is happening, so I was interested in whether maybe I'm missing something or if others have noticed something similar.  As an example, in our conference tournament this season Indiana M2M vs. Iowa FCP - Indiana chose 4 Iowa players to double team. There weren't always double teams, b/c if 3 or more of those players were on the court at once, no one is doubled. Eventually it led to 10 references to the double. Iowa actually handled the double teams pretty well, though lost the game.  But that got me thinking, why is there no reference to shooting over a double team or passing out of a trap when Indiana has the ball in the half court set.  The PBP's used to have references like that, but then the FCP was revised, and I honestly don't recall when I stopped seeing references like that.  So is the "engine working as intended" or has something very fundamental to the running of the FCP been changed?

Posted by gillispie on 5/22/2012 3:20:00 AM (view original):
in my opinion, no. i havent seen any evidence that the HCP does a damn thing. i used to count the turnovers from double-team, trap, press - a while back - it was under 1 per game, in the game logs. which may not reflect the full impact but i checked like the entirety of the 15 teams i could find who played, and saw no higher turnovers than i would expect, from a non-press set, at least not more than ~1 per game. i thought my margin of error was maybe ~1 per game back then and i saw maybe ~.5 per game increase. so i guess it could be a little more than 1, but i really doubt its much more, if at all. just not worth it, IMO, costs you stamina. screw practicing it - even if you practice - id go straight press or straight non-press, with that IQ. just not worth the lower fatigue for 1 extra turnover (woo!)

gillispie, i just bumped a thread about HCP.  i would be interested to hear more of your thoughts.