good post.   I really never Jeter's SB total, and am somewhat surprised he has over 300.  Guess that's what longevity will get you.

I believe it was Bill James who said (paraphrasing) that anytime a player joins a multi-stat "club" that fits his own milestones perfectly, he's always the worst player in that club.

True, but worst of 2 still ain't bad...  Of course, Barry Bonds would have been in that club if he hadn't been walked so darn much...

I'm not at all surprised Jeter has 300 steals.  I'm much more surprised that he has 250 HRs.

Posted by italyprof on 8/18/2012 11:27:00 AM (view original):
After yesterday's HR against the Red Sox: 

"Jeter joins Willie Mays as the only players with 3,000 hits, 250 home runs, 300 stolen bases and 1,200 runs batted in. The 250 homers also tied him with Graig Nettles for ninth place on the Yankees’ all-time list. It was his 10th home run, making this the 16th season in which he has recorded at least 10."

- New York Times August 18, 2012

Pretty good company.

Mays:  3,283 hits, 660 home runs, 338 stolen bases, 1,903 rbis.

I suppose if the bar is set low enough (250 homers, 1,200 rbis), Jeter can join the club.

Posted by teaparty on 8/23/2012 3:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by italyprof on 8/18/2012 11:27:00 AM (view original):
After yesterday's HR against the Red Sox: 

"Jeter joins Willie Mays as the only players with 3,000 hits, 250 home runs, 300 stolen bases and 1,200 runs batted in. The 250 homers also tied him with Graig Nettles for ninth place on the Yankees’ all-time list. It was his 10th home run, making this the 16th season in which he has recorded at least 10."

- New York Times August 18, 2012

Pretty good company.

Mays:  3,283 hits, 660 home runs, 338 stolen bases, 1,903 rbis.

I suppose if the bar is set low enough (250 homers, 1,200 rbis), Jeter can join the club.

In 1968, Bob Beamon set the long jump record at the Mexico City Olympics.  He was only the thirdever to jump 8.35 meters or more.  Does the fact he leapt 8.9 belittle the feats of Igor Ter-Ovanesyan and Ralph Boston?

Trivia: in the competition when Mike Powell broke Beamon's record in 1991, he finished second despite setting the record.  Why, and to whom did he lose?

Yes, I guess if the bar is set low enough Honus Wagner, Carl Yastrzemski, Willie Mays, and Tris Speaker, oh, yes and Derek Jeter, followed by Cal Ripken, George Brett and Robin Yount and Tony Gwynn, can qualify.  

Notice Jeter has played FEWER seasons than everyone else on this list of most career hits, except for Wade Boggs, who played the same number as Jeter has up to now and ended up with 247 FEWER hits over the same number of seasons - gee, I guess that is what longevity gets you. Namely a full, all-star season worth of hits FEWER than Derek Jeter over the same number of seasons. 

Posted by pinotfan on 8/23/2012 5:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by teaparty on 8/23/2012 3:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by italyprof on 8/18/2012 11:27:00 AM (view original):
After yesterday's HR against the Red Sox: 

"Jeter joins Willie Mays as the only players with 3,000 hits, 250 home runs, 300 stolen bases and 1,200 runs batted in. The 250 homers also tied him with Graig Nettles for ninth place on the Yankees’ all-time list. It was his 10th home run, making this the 16th season in which he has recorded at least 10."

- New York Times August 18, 2012

Pretty good company.

Mays:  3,283 hits, 660 home runs, 338 stolen bases, 1,903 rbis.

I suppose if the bar is set low enough (250 homers, 1,200 rbis), Jeter can join the club.

In 1968, Bob Beamon set the long jump record at the Mexico City Olympics.  He was only the thirdever to jump 8.35 meters or more.  Does the fact he leapt 8.9 belittle the feats of Igor Ter-Ovanesyan and Ralph Boston?

Trivia: in the competition when Mike Powell broke Beamon's record in 1991, he finished second despite setting the record.  Why, and to whom did he lose?

I'm assuming the answer you're looking for is Carl Lewis, but I'm not sure what you're going for; Powell won that competition.  Lewis had the best six-jump total ever, but that is not how long jump competitions are scored. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_World_Championships_in_Athletics

OK, I'll open the obvious can of worms; should Rose be in the Hall of Fame?

One a related note about the folly of arbitrarily stratifying players, I highly recommend reading Joe Posnanski's article:

The Willie Mays Hall of Fame

Wille Mays was amazing because, by almost any multi-stat metric you come up with, he's almost always still makes the cut.

And I don't necessarily want to pile on the Jeter-hate bandwagon. But, as with everything in life, context is important. Jeter has been amazingly durable, that in itself is a rare and valuable commodity. He also has batted leadoff or #2 his entire career, giving him numerous more PA than his contemporaries each year. For RBI's, we all know the legendary offenses Yankee money has put together. You get #9 hitters like Scott Brosius and Melky Cabrara, heck Robinson Cano was an 8/9 hitter for a while.

The extra context isn't all negative, either. 300+ steals is nifty, but the fact that he did it at a 78% (66th all time) rate is to me even more impressive. Jeter is 44th all-time in doubles but only 194th all-time in home runs.

The power/speed combo, at least at Jeter's level, isn't all that rare. He average 16 HR and 22 SB per 162 games. A season with 16+ HR / 22+ SB has happened 435 times since 1901.

At baseball-reference.com, Jeter's most similar players include HOFers Roberto Alomar, Charlie Gehringer, Barry Larkin, Frankie Frisch, Paul Molitor, and Robin Yount. Sounds about where Jeter truly belongs in history's annals.

One final thought: The less heralded Craig Biggio missed the 3,000 H / 250 HR / 300 SB / 1,200 RBI club by only 25 RBI's.

Posted by italyprof on 8/23/2012 6:09:00 PM (view original):
Notice Jeter has played FEWER seasons than everyone else on this list of most career hits, except for Wade Boggs, who played the same number as Jeter has up to now and ended up with 247 FEWER hits over the same number of seasons - gee, I guess that is what longevity gets you. Namely a full, all-star season worth of hits FEWER than Derek Jeter over the same number of seasons. 

Wade Boggs career slash line - .328/.415/.443 OPS+ 131, 1412 walks
Derek Jeter career slash line - .313/.382/.449 OPS+ 118, 1024 walks

I'll take the Boggs line any day of the week.  247 fewer hits, 388 more walks = 141 more times on base.

Not to mention Boggs led the league in doubles twice, AVG 5 times, OBP 6 times, OPS twice, walks twice, runs scored twice, a few other small things.  The only thing Jeter ever led the league in was hits.  I'm sorry, the ability to hit singles does not make you an all-time great.

It makes you one of the best-hitting shortstops of all time.  But put him where he SHOULD be defensively, out in left field, and it looks a lot more pedestrian.  118 OPS+ are good, not great, COFers.

pinotfan, I believe the answer is Carl Lewis but I don't remember the exact circumstances.

Since I'm linking JoPoe articles today, here's Posnanski's great piece on Lewis:

The 30-Foot Jump