8-19 Team Makes the PIT Topic

stinenavy
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Virginia Tech in IBA makes the PIT as a 7 seed. 

www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Schedule.aspx

I used to be a defender of it being okay for teams with losing records making the PIT, but I'm not so sure anymore. There's 9 BCS schools making the PIT with losing records in IBA, including the 8-19 Virginia Tech team.
5/8/2014 5:48 AM
alblack56
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I'm OK with losing teams making it, but 8-19 is a bit much.   I think a team should have at least 12 wins to play in the PIT.

In Iba, a 12-win threshold would've  eliminate Texas and Virginia Tech, and replaced them with Wofford and Birmingham Southern

If the cut off were 13, Alabama would also be out, replaced by Louisiana Monroe

I also think that any regular season champion should be in the PIT, just like the real-life NIT. In Iba, that would've added UNC-Wilmington.

I'd also like to see another post-season tournament, like the CIT or CBI

5/8/2014 8:23 AM (edited)
jtt8355
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Quote post by alblack56 on 5/8/2014 8:23:00 AM:
I also think that any regular season champion should be in the PIT, just like the real-life NIT. 

had never heard this suggested before. this is an excellent idea! why not reward a coach for his success, however nominal? should be an extremely easy change to implement. this should be put at the top of admin's list.
5/8/2014 9:49 AM
zags27
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Anything that puts more small conference teams in the PIT and more #11 and #12 big-6 teams out would probably be a good thing.
$5,000 for a PIT game doesn't mean much for a Big6 conference, and if you went 8-19 you probably shouldn't be in any post-season anyway.
But an extra 2-3 games in the PIT for small conferences actually helps them sustain life so to speak in more ways than just a few extra bucks per team.
The "frustration factor" in small D1 conferences is pretty big for alot of guys to handle.
Low to mid-major conferences need the "stars to align" for them to prosper at all and grow. The post-season really means something to those players... even the PIT.
 

5/8/2014 10:22 AM
jcf16
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Back in 2010, it was a big deal that 16-16 UNC made the NIT even though they had a .500 record. Granted, they went to the NIT Finals so the bid was validated, but I think it would be great if the WIS PI had a .500 rule and/or took all of the regular season champs that didn't make the NT (limiting 1 per conference, not taking both champs).
5/8/2014 11:06 AM
acn24
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Posted by jtt8355 on 5/8/2014 9:49:00 AM (view original):
Quote post by alblack56 on 5/8/2014 8:23:00 AM:
I also think that any regular season champion should be in the PIT, just like the real-life NIT. 

had never heard this suggested before. this is an excellent idea! why not reward a coach for his success, however nominal? should be an extremely easy change to implement. this should be put at the top of admin's list.
WIS counts the winner(s) of both divisions at conf champs, do both (or all) get in the NIT as well?
5/8/2014 12:01 PM
taniajane
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I agree with regular season champion (best record in 16 game league play, but loses the conf tournament) should be in before an 8-19 team from the super conferences. And agree with Zags27:
"But an extra 2-3 games in the PIT for small conferences actually helps them sustain life so to speak in more ways than just a few extra bucks per team.
The "frustration factor" in small D1 conferences is pretty big for alot of guys to handle.
Low to mid-major conferences need the "stars to align" for them to prosper at all and grow."
5/8/2014 12:22 PM
jtt8355
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Posted by acn24 on 5/8/2014 12:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jtt8355 on 5/8/2014 9:49:00 AM (view original):
Quote post by alblack56 on 5/8/2014 8:23:00 AM:
I also think that any regular season champion should be in the PIT, just like the real-life NIT. 

had never heard this suggested before. this is an excellent idea! why not reward a coach for his success, however nominal? should be an extremely easy change to implement. this should be put at the top of admin's list.
WIS counts the winner(s) of both divisions at conf champs, do both (or all) get in the NIT as well?
technically, you can ask that about any tie, right? e.g., when there's a tie, wis counts both as conf champs, even though there is a tie breaker to determine the 1 seed in the conf tournie. regardless, i think it would be best for the goals articulated by zags to award both conf champs (one from each division) a spot in the PIT, assuming neither made the NT on its own accord. perhaps the > 50% threshold could be implemented as well so that you don't have a terrible team squeak in by the sole virtue of being marginally less terrible than its conference mates.
5/8/2014 12:29 PM
jcf16
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with 27 D1 confs, you couldn't give an autobid to both conf champs from all conferences. it would have to be the "best" of the two. rewarding a team in a lower conf for going 14-2 and dominating regular season play with an autobid would be nice and actually put more of an emphasis on the regular season among the lower confs. on the flip side, i'm sure some 200 RPI team from an all Sim conf would make the PI this way and then we'd all flip out, too.
5/8/2014 2:42 PM
jtt8355
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Posted by jcf16 on 5/8/2014 2:42:00 PM (view original):
with 27 D1 confs, you couldn't give an autobid to both conf champs from all conferences. it would have to be the "best" of the two. rewarding a team in a lower conf for going 14-2 and dominating regular season play with an autobid would be nice and actually put more of an emphasis on the regular season among the lower confs. on the flip side, i'm sure some 200 RPI team from an all Sim conf would make the PI this way and then we'd all flip out, too.
i thought about this, but then i considered that it should be impossible that a significant portion of the 54 teams don't make the NT, either by winning the CT or outright. i'm not a math guy, but we have enough math whizzes involved with HD that i'm sure someone can demonstrate that it would be near impossible for < 22 conf champions to make the NT.
5/8/2014 3:03 PM
wildcat98
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There are 96 tournament spots (64 NT/32 PIT). Currently, only 27 of those spots are guaranteed an autobid--the 27 conference tourney champs. In the Smith World (where I coach Villanova, in the Big East), there would have been 10 conference champions who would have definitely received NT bids had they lost their CT. Another 4-6 would've been bubble teams for an auto-bid. The other 11 would've been clearly out of the NT running had they lost in the CT. That means that somewhere between 11 and 17 of the bids to the PIT would've been given to regular season conference champions, a few of which were Sim-coached teams. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Personally, I'd like to see WIS expand the PIT field to 48, at which point, I'd say "Bring it on!" as far as regular season conference champions auto-qualifying to the PIT.
5/8/2014 3:29 PM
jtt8355
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Posted by wildcat98 on 5/8/2014 3:29:00 PM (view original):
There are 96 tournament spots (64 NT/32 PIT). Currently, only 27 of those spots are guaranteed an autobid--the 27 conference tourney champs. In the Smith World (where I coach Villanova, in the Big East), there would have been 10 conference champions who would have definitely received NT bids had they lost their CT. Another 4-6 would've been bubble teams for an auto-bid. The other 11 would've been clearly out of the NT running had they lost in the CT. That means that somewhere between 11 and 17 of the bids to the PIT would've been given to regular season conference champions, a few of which were Sim-coached teams. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Personally, I'd like to see WIS expand the PIT field to 48, at which point, I'd say "Bring it on!" as far as regular season conference champions auto-qualifying to the PIT.
i think 14 is right around the average of where the conf champions should get their representation. though it would be less if a > .500 record was required. 

couldn't someone figure out that based on the record that it takes to win a conference, you are guaranteed to have a certain number of conference winners make the NT without winning the CT or does that not follow? 
5/8/2014 3:53 PM
zbrent716
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This discussion is all well and good in D1 perhaps, but in D2/D3 such a winning percentage requirement for the PI would reward the teams in the empty conferences at the expense of better teams in conferences full of humans.

In Tark GLV, for example, .500 is basically the cutoff line - over it and you go NT; under it and you go PI. The under .500 teams have been "validated" as good bids by their successes - in S88, GLV had 3 of the final 4 PI teams, incl. champs, for example.
5/9/2014 9:20 AM
jtt8355
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i'm the lone star in tark, where we've put together a conference as good as the GLV, despite multiple sims each season. the coaches in the glv (and other conferences like it) have figured out a way to game the system with scheduling. more power to them! the teams that are successful should be rewarded with post season trips. however, the 8-19's of those conferences should be golfing or otherwise watching the post season on tv. even if that means rewarding coaches in empty conferences. 
5/9/2014 9:34 AM
alblack56
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Posted by acn24 on 5/8/2014 12:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jtt8355 on 5/8/2014 9:49:00 AM (view original):
Quote post by alblack56 on 5/8/2014 8:23:00 AM:
I also think that any regular season champion should be in the PIT, just like the real-life NIT. 

had never heard this suggested before. this is an excellent idea! why not reward a coach for his success, however nominal? should be an extremely easy change to implement. this should be put at the top of admin's list.
WIS counts the winner(s) of both divisions at conf champs, do both (or all) get in the NIT as well?
I believe  one automatic bid per conference is enough.  If both division winners have the same record, use their one regular season game as a tiebreaker.  Often, the regular season champ is strong enough to make the PIT, anyway. In Iba, only UNC-Wilmington would've needed the 'automatic' bid to qualify
5/9/2014 9:51 AM
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