I was under the assumption that Sim coaches don't put recruiting effort in after the first cycle.  Apparently that's not true.  Did people know this, or was it just me?

Here's the ticket I sent in and CS's response.

6/10/2014 9:14 PM	dan2044
Hi, I was always under the impression that Sim coached teams dont put recruiting effort in after the first cycle. Is this wrong. In Wooden yesterday I put money into a recruit that was initially only on a sim. I then got a scholarship message that I'm very confident implied I was winning the battle at the 2PM cycle and that's when the word on the street came out that he was struggling between 2 schools but I was listed first, which I think is generally accepted by coaches that means I was winning. So I didn't put in any more effort since I assumed the sim wouldn't either. But then at 8PM after doing nothing, I got another scholarship message that was more vague and I waited to do anything until the 2AM word on the street came out which listed me second.  So all that for the very simple question, do the sims put in effort after the first cycle? If not, what happened here? thanks, Dan
6/11/2014 9:44 AM	Customer Support
Hi Dan, If you do not "knock off" the SimAI school, the school can still add additional recruiting effort on a recruit. It is usually pretty easy to sway any recruit from a Sim school as long as you are putting in enough effort.

There had been debate about it, but it seemed clear that SIM coaches put in at least a little more effort than that.  It's settled now - this is in the updated FAQ, emphasis mine:

Q: Do AI-controlled teams recruit like humans?

A: In some ways yes and some ways no. AI schools identify their primary and backup targets like humans, but they do most of their recruiting just before the official start to recruiting (which is also why you may see recruits already considering schools when recruiting begins). Also, AI-controlled schools recruiting efforts are the equivalent to being roughly 200 miles from the recruit regardless of actual distance.

So, most but not all.

well I am still not convinced the CS person that dan got is correct.

I think the "most" refers to additional recruiting money SIMS spend on NEW recuits on the 2nd day of signings if they come up empty on their initial targets.    I still do not think they put additional money into the initial targets.

Dan - I would escalate if possible to make sure you are getting a knowledgable CS person.

I wonder if how Simmy recruits does permit them to have additional effort on their initial recruits under certain circumstances:

1.  We know that Simmy will recruit prior to the first cycle for N-2 openings where N is 3 or more (2 or less, Simmy won't do any initial recruiting).  They will use the majority of their cash on this batch of recruits but still hold back some cash.

2.  Between that initial batch and the 11am cycle after signings begin (where the majority of battles are resolved), Simmy won't put forth any new effort into those recruits (they will however get accumulating consideration credit).

3.  After the majority of battles have been resolved (with only the tight ones remaining), Simmy will again try and push in effort with the remainder of their cash to get N recruits to consider them (but still holding back enough cash to sign N recruits for minimum cash - schollie + call maybe?).  If they evenly divide this cash over all their available openings (which if one of their initial recruits was in a tight battle still) this is where Simmy might put more effort.

4.  Prior to the final cutoff, Simmy uses the remainder of their cash to ensure they fill all N openings (as I've never seen Simmy take a walk-on even if someone poaches them late).

I remember reading somewhere on here that the schools listed is not an actual order, and in fact when I opened the recruits page a few times in 10-15 seconds, the order was different. So don't go by the listed order, as that means nothing, unless the recruit had changed his mind twice in 15 seconds in the same cycle.

If the OP saying he was listed first, I am assuming he means in the FSS statement (and not the consideration list under the recruits portrait).  The order in which the schools are listed in the consideration list is not important and does NOT reflect who's leading/behind in effort.  The FSS statement order in which schools are listed is important as that is the sure fire way to tell if you are ahead or behind in a close battle.  If your school is listed first in the FSS statement, then you are in the lead (at least at the time when that FSS statement came out).

Posted by snake13 on 6/11/2014 5:59:00 PM (view original):
I remember reading somewhere on here that the schools listed is not an actual order, and in fact when I opened the recruits page a few times in 10-15 seconds, the order was different. So don't go by the listed order, as that means nothing, unless the recruit had changed his mind twice in 15 seconds in the same cycle.

While this is true about the left side of a recruits profile, the OP was referring to the order of the schools listed in the "Word on the Street" message.  The school listed first in this message is winning the battle.  For example, a message saying "Our sources say Fred Jones is struggling between Team A and Team B", you can conclude that Team A is winning this battle.  This is one of the best tips I've ever read on the forums.

Does anyone know what percentage of a SIM's budget goes toward their #1 target, #2 target, etc?  I know that there is a general rule of thumb out there, and I was thinking it was along the lines of a SIM teams #1 target gets 30% of their budget.

Posted by clouseb on 6/11/2014 7:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snake13 on 6/11/2014 5:59:00 PM (view original):
I remember reading somewhere on here that the schools listed is not an actual order, and in fact when I opened the recruits page a few times in 10-15 seconds, the order was different. So don't go by the listed order, as that means nothing, unless the recruit had changed his mind twice in 15 seconds in the same cycle.

While this is true about the left side of a recruits profile, the OP was referring to the order of the schools listed in the "Word on the Street" message.  The school listed first in this message is winning the battle.  For example, a message saying "Our sources say Fred Jones is struggling between Team A and Team B", you can conclude that Team A is winning this battle.  This is one of the best tips I've ever read on the forums.

Does anyone know what percentage of a SIM's budget goes toward their #1 target, #2 target, etc?  I know that there is a general rule of thumb out there, and I was thinking it was along the lines of a SIM teams #1 target gets 30% of their budget.

Ok, the FSS part makes sense. The way he had it worded had me thinking he was thinking he was in the lead because of a mail the recruit sent him, but now I understand with the FSS part. Though, if a recruit is struggling with a decision, wouldn't you help him out with it a bit by another visit? Even if you are in the lead, it's probably not by much, so try and get it a bit further.

Posted by clouseb on 6/11/2014 7:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snake13 on 6/11/2014 5:59:00 PM (view original):
I remember reading somewhere on here that the schools listed is not an actual order, and in fact when I opened the recruits page a few times in 10-15 seconds, the order was different. So don't go by the listed order, as that means nothing, unless the recruit had changed his mind twice in 15 seconds in the same cycle.

While this is true about the left side of a recruits profile, the OP was referring to the order of the schools listed in the "Word on the Street" message.  The school listed first in this message is winning the battle.  For example, a message saying "Our sources say Fred Jones is struggling between Team A and Team B", you can conclude that Team A is winning this battle.  This is one of the best tips I've ever read on the forums.

Does anyone know what percentage of a SIM's budget goes toward their #1 target, #2 target, etc?  I know that there is a general rule of thumb out there, and I was thinking it was along the lines of a SIM teams #1 target gets 30% of their budget.

30%? that seems too low to me - but I guess it is relative to their # of openings. with 3 openings, its probably like 80-90%. with 6, it might be down around 50%, but I think its a little higher, not sure.

Posted by dan2044 on 6/11/2014 10:39:00 AM (view original):
I was under the assumption that Sim coaches don't put recruiting effort in after the first cycle.  Apparently that's not true.  Did people know this, or was it just me?

Here's the ticket I sent in and CS's response.

6/10/2014 9:14 PM	dan2044
Hi, I was always under the impression that Sim coached teams dont put recruiting effort in after the first cycle. Is this wrong. In Wooden yesterday I put money into a recruit that was initially only on a sim. I then got a scholarship message that I'm very confident implied I was winning the battle at the 2PM cycle and that's when the word on the street came out that he was struggling between 2 schools but I was listed first, which I think is generally accepted by coaches that means I was winning. So I didn't put in any more effort since I assumed the sim wouldn't either. But then at 8PM after doing nothing, I got another scholarship message that was more vague and I waited to do anything until the 2AM word on the street came out which listed me second.  So all that for the very simple question, do the sims put in effort after the first cycle? If not, what happened here? thanks, Dan
6/11/2014 9:44 AM	Customer Support
Hi Dan, If you do not "knock off" the SimAI school, the school can still add additional recruiting effort on a recruit. It is usually pretty easy to sway any recruit from a Sim school as long as you are putting in enough effort.

its annoying that the last 5 people who asked this got a different answer... but this does explain all the sim ai "bugs" with respect to this issue. good find!

I've noticed recently that Sims are putting in more effort to stay on recruits.  At least it seems, that they would put in 100% of their effort before the first cycle, but I wouldn't say that anymore

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/12/2014 10:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by clouseb on 6/11/2014 7:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snake13 on 6/11/2014 5:59:00 PM (view original):
I remember reading somewhere on here that the schools listed is not an actual order, and in fact when I opened the recruits page a few times in 10-15 seconds, the order was different. So don't go by the listed order, as that means nothing, unless the recruit had changed his mind twice in 15 seconds in the same cycle.

While this is true about the left side of a recruits profile, the OP was referring to the order of the schools listed in the "Word on the Street" message.  The school listed first in this message is winning the battle.  For example, a message saying "Our sources say Fred Jones is struggling between Team A and Team B", you can conclude that Team A is winning this battle.  This is one of the best tips I've ever read on the forums.

Does anyone know what percentage of a SIM's budget goes toward their #1 target, #2 target, etc?  I know that there is a general rule of thumb out there, and I was thinking it was along the lines of a SIM teams #1 target gets 30% of their budget.

30%? that seems too low to me - but I guess it is relative to their # of openings. with 3 openings, its probably like 80-90%. with 6, it might be down around 50%, but I think its a little higher, not sure.

I charted it a while back. I wasn't real confident with my answer but I think it was something like 50-20-20 for 3 openings.

It can't be 80 or d3 teams would be tight with their primary recruit and much harder to knock off. I have never had to spend 20 hvs to knock a d3 team SIM team off a player.

Posted by scaturo on 6/13/2014 6:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/12/2014 10:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by clouseb on 6/11/2014 7:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snake13 on 6/11/2014 5:59:00 PM (view original):
I remember reading somewhere on here that the schools listed is not an actual order, and in fact when I opened the recruits page a few times in 10-15 seconds, the order was different. So don't go by the listed order, as that means nothing, unless the recruit had changed his mind twice in 15 seconds in the same cycle.

While this is true about the left side of a recruits profile, the OP was referring to the order of the schools listed in the "Word on the Street" message.  The school listed first in this message is winning the battle.  For example, a message saying "Our sources say Fred Jones is struggling between Team A and Team B", you can conclude that Team A is winning this battle.  This is one of the best tips I've ever read on the forums.

Does anyone know what percentage of a SIM's budget goes toward their #1 target, #2 target, etc?  I know that there is a general rule of thumb out there, and I was thinking it was along the lines of a SIM teams #1 target gets 30% of their budget.

30%? that seems too low to me - but I guess it is relative to their # of openings. with 3 openings, its probably like 80-90%. with 6, it might be down around 50%, but I think its a little higher, not sure.

I charted it a while back. I wasn't real confident with my answer but I think it was something like 50-20-20 for 3 openings.

It can't be 80 or d3 teams would be tight with their primary recruit and much harder to knock off. I have never had to spend 20 hvs to knock a d3 team SIM team off a player.

are you saying you checked the players after signings? or are you talking about a 5 opening school, who targets 3 players from the get go? 

I don't understand that question.


What I looked at was:

1.  The WOTS message-   I figure "tight" to be somewhere around 22-25 HV's.
2. Charted how much it look me to overpass a SIM.   In D3 vs D3 I don't think it ever took me more than 10 HVs.

Scratch #2, it just did.