Wisconsin Parkside
This team plays a press and 12 guys play more than 10 minutes but less than 24. They have very poor backups compared to my incredible ones. This team has five insanely good players (Hepburn, Watson, Snell, Akuchie and Turner) 6 ones that forgot how to play defense and one dude with 85 de and ath but not much else. In short my starters would lose to theirs by 25 and my backups would beat theirs by 30. Should I run uptempo because my backups are better or run slow down because they play 12 guys, all with modest playing time.

sorry no one is answering - cant really without studying the rosters

Posted by fd343ny on 9/12/2016 8:43:00 AM (view original):
sorry no one is answering - cant really without studying the rosters

I went slowdown and it worked swimmingly (not)! A pickem turned into a 12 point loss.

Your tempo really only impacts your substitution pattern. I don't think that is realistic (I think if your opponent plays up tempo, it should impact your defenders too .. but the impact on the opponent is minimal wrt their players and fatigue).

So the only impact is number of possessions. If you play uptempo then there will be more processions in the game and your second team will play more (while his second team will play minutes based on his tempo setting).

Because of this, I would not play uptempo unless my starters had an advantage.

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/12/2016 12:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 9/12/2016 8:43:00 AM (view original):
sorry no one is answering - cant really without studying the rosters

I went slowdown and it worked swimmingly (not)! A pickem turned into a 12 point loss.

If his starters have a big advantage, slow down is the correct play. Remember, your tempo does not have very much impact on his rotations. Defensive tempo has no real impact on fatigue .. if you play slow down and your opponent plays uptempo .. your minutes will be distributed the same (or almost the same) as if you played slow down and your opponent played slow down.

So YOUR tempo has the major impact on YOUR player's fatigue and your opponents tempo has the major impact on HIS player's fatigue. I am not saying that it SHOULD be this way, but it is.

I wouldn't worry about it. Wisconsin, Parkside is the better team. Going with slowdown on the road and losing by 10 doesn't mean it was the wrong choice. To me the following mean Indy should go slowdown:

1. Team depth Wisc = 12; Indy = 10
2. Stam - Wisc=76; Indy < 77
3. Upperclassmen - Wisc = 7; Indy = 7 (as a shortcut to IQ)
4. System - Wisc= Press; Indy = man
5. Home = Wisc.

However, the bigger problem for Indy is the missing Perimeter & Passing player that makes the team work better (especially flex and against press). My own thinking is that not playing Potter as your PG is probably hurting you. For development, I would suggest sticking Lux in your starting lineup at fairly fresh and let him get great! That's the bullet you've gotta bite when you take a low WE player.

For the most part, Indy can play normal tempo against most teams, but on the road against a team that is even or better, slowdown helps to randomize the results. Randomize isn't quite the word I'm looking for, but it'll do.

Posted by hughesjr on 9/12/2016 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Your tempo really only impacts your substitution pattern. I don't think that is realistic (I think if your opponent plays up tempo, it should impact your defenders too .. but the impact on the opponent is minimal wrt their players and fatigue).

So the only impact is number of possessions. If you play uptempo then there will be more processions in the game and your second team will play more (while his second team will play minutes based on his tempo setting).

Because of this, I would not play uptempo unless my starters had an advantage.

i dont think the first and second bit are correct. tempo definitely impacts the fatigue of your opponent.

Posted by rogelio on 9/12/2016 12:54:00 PM (view original):
I wouldn't worry about it. Wisconsin, Parkside is the better team. Going with slowdown on the road and losing by 10 doesn't mean it was the wrong choice. To me the following mean Indy should go slowdown:

1. Team depth Wisc = 12; Indy = 10
2. Stam - Wisc=76; Indy < 77
3. Upperclassmen - Wisc = 7; Indy = 7 (as a shortcut to IQ)
4. System - Wisc= Press; Indy = man
5. Home = Wisc.

However, the bigger problem for Indy is the missing Perimeter & Passing player that makes the team work better (especially flex and against press). My own thinking is that not playing Potter as your PG is probably hurting you. For development, I would suggest sticking Lux in your starting lineup at fairly fresh and let him get great! That's the bullet you've gotta bite when you take a low WE player.

For the most part, Indy can play normal tempo against most teams, but on the road against a team that is even or better, slowdown helps to randomize the results. Randomize isn't quite the word I'm looking for, but it'll do.

slowdown helps to increase variance... is what you are looking for :)

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/12/2016 2:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 9/12/2016 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Your tempo really only impacts your substitution pattern. I don't think that is realistic (I think if your opponent plays up tempo, it should impact your defenders too .. but the impact on the opponent is minimal wrt their players and fatigue).

So the only impact is number of possessions. If you play uptempo then there will be more processions in the game and your second team will play more (while his second team will play minutes based on his tempo setting).

Because of this, I would not play uptempo unless my starters had an advantage.

i dont think the first and second bit are correct. tempo definitely impacts the fatigue of your opponent.

Sorry, but your tempo does not impact (or at the very least has a minimal impact) on the fatigue of your opponent.

I have looked at this in depth.

I would be glad to be proven wrong though.

Take a look at just Minutes Played of your team vs. Normal and Uptempo defenses .. also compare against the same defenses (uptempo man and Normal Man). All of this when your tempo is the same. You will find (at least I did find) that minutes I played did was not significantly impacted by the opponent's tempo.

I am not the only one who thinks (sees) this:

Link 1 (oldwarrior), Link 2 (alblack56), Link 3 (dahsdebater), Link 4 (dev chat)

I agree with those links ... impact is actually minimal on defenders. I think it should be more.

Posted by rogelio on 9/12/2016 12:54:00 PM (view original):
I wouldn't worry about it. Wisconsin, Parkside is the better team. Going with slowdown on the road and losing by 10 doesn't mean it was the wrong choice. To me the following mean Indy should go slowdown:

1. Team depth Wisc = 12; Indy = 10
2. Stam - Wisc=76; Indy < 77
3. Upperclassmen - Wisc = 7; Indy = 7 (as a shortcut to IQ)
4. System - Wisc= Press; Indy = man
5. Home = Wisc.

However, the bigger problem for Indy is the missing Perimeter & Passing player that makes the team work better (especially flex and against press). My own thinking is that not playing Potter as your PG is probably hurting you. For development, I would suggest sticking Lux in your starting lineup at fairly fresh and let him get great! That's the bullet you've gotta bite when you take a low WE player.

For the most part, Indy can play normal tempo against most teams, but on the road against a team that is even or better, slowdown helps to randomize the results. Randomize isn't quite the word I'm looking for, but it'll do.

Oh yeah. They have heck of a first five.

Posted by rogelio on 9/12/2016 12:54:00 PM (view original):
I wouldn't worry about it. Wisconsin, Parkside is the better team. Going with slowdown on the road and losing by 10 doesn't mean it was the wrong choice. To me the following mean Indy should go slowdown:

1. Team depth Wisc = 12; Indy = 10
2. Stam - Wisc=76; Indy < 77
3. Upperclassmen - Wisc = 7; Indy = 7 (as a shortcut to IQ)
4. System - Wisc= Press; Indy = man
5. Home = Wisc.

However, the bigger problem for Indy is the missing Perimeter & Passing player that makes the team work better (especially flex and against press). My own thinking is that not playing Potter as your PG is probably hurting you. For development, I would suggest sticking Lux in your starting lineup at fairly fresh and let him get great! That's the bullet you've gotta bite when you take a low WE player.

For the most part, Indy can play normal tempo against most teams, but on the road against a team that is even or better, slowdown helps to randomize the results. Randomize isn't quite the word I'm looking for, but it'll do.

Lux, in the future, will be that PE and Passing player and offensive stud. (92 PE and 68-77 PA). Millet has high-high in PE, BH, SP, LP and PE and Blue in Sta and Ath.

Posted by hughesjr on 9/12/2016 4:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/12/2016 2:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 9/12/2016 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Your tempo really only impacts your substitution pattern. I don't think that is realistic (I think if your opponent plays up tempo, it should impact your defenders too .. but the impact on the opponent is minimal wrt their players and fatigue).

So the only impact is number of possessions. If you play uptempo then there will be more processions in the game and your second team will play more (while his second team will play minutes based on his tempo setting).

Because of this, I would not play uptempo unless my starters had an advantage.

i dont think the first and second bit are correct. tempo definitely impacts the fatigue of your opponent.

Sorry, but your tempo does not impact (or at the very least has a minimal impact) on the fatigue of your opponent.

I have looked at this in depth.

I would be glad to be proven wrong though.

Take a look at just Minutes Played of your team vs. Normal and Uptempo defenses .. also compare against the same defenses (uptempo man and Normal Man). All of this when your tempo is the same. You will find (at least I did find) that minutes I played did was not significantly impacted by the opponent's tempo.

I am not the only one who thinks (sees) this:

Link 1 (oldwarrior), Link 2 (alblack56), Link 3 (dahsdebater), Link 4 (dev chat)

I agree with those links ... impact is actually minimal on defenders. I think it should be more.

So you should never do uptempo? What are the benefits?

To me, main benefits of going uptempo are to decrease level of variance and decrease chance of an upset (as Rog and Gil said).

Also, if I'm good at drawing fouls (typically meaning I have a big Ath/Spd advantage), I also like to go uptempo. Uptempo means more possessions. More possessions means more fouling. More fouling means more free throws and less depth for the other team when they start fouling out. Basically it can just make things snowball for the opponent and next thing you know, you've just won by 70.

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/12/2016 5:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 9/12/2016 4:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/12/2016 2:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 9/12/2016 12:13:00 PM (view original):
Your tempo really only impacts your substitution pattern. I don't think that is realistic (I think if your opponent plays up tempo, it should impact your defenders too .. but the impact on the opponent is minimal wrt their players and fatigue).

So the only impact is number of possessions. If you play uptempo then there will be more processions in the game and your second team will play more (while his second team will play minutes based on his tempo setting).

Because of this, I would not play uptempo unless my starters had an advantage.

i dont think the first and second bit are correct. tempo definitely impacts the fatigue of your opponent.

Sorry, but your tempo does not impact (or at the very least has a minimal impact) on the fatigue of your opponent.

I have looked at this in depth.

I would be glad to be proven wrong though.

Take a look at just Minutes Played of your team vs. Normal and Uptempo defenses .. also compare against the same defenses (uptempo man and Normal Man). All of this when your tempo is the same. You will find (at least I did find) that minutes I played did was not significantly impacted by the opponent's tempo.

I am not the only one who thinks (sees) this:

Link 1 (oldwarrior), Link 2 (alblack56), Link 3 (dahsdebater), Link 4 (dev chat)

I agree with those links ... impact is actually minimal on defenders. I think it should be more.

So you should never do uptempo? What are the benefits?

The benefits of uptempo are when you have the better team. Up tempo creates more possessions, which means more shots (or statistically speaking a larger sample size).

A larger sample size means a result that is statistically closer to the norm (projected) state .. which is for you to win if you have a significantly better team.

If you are clearly an underdog, you want to slow down, meaning a smaller sample size and a higher chance of an outlier overall result. (For example, it is MUCH easier to see 67% heads on a coin flip if you do it 3 times than if do it 3,000 times)

When you play up tempo though, you will fatigue your players faster than the other team fatigues as a result of your action.
So, that can mean your backups more against their starters. If you slow down, it also means (if you use fatigue to control playing time) that your starters will play more against their backups.

In the dev chat link provided, they specifically affirm that playing uptempo DOES increase the fatigue of your opponent. It's right there, in black and white, from the devs. They do say that a MORE talented team is likely to be able to overcome this due to the increase in possessions, however- this simple scenario doesn't delve into the issue enough. If teams are close in talent level, but the talent on one team is a more evenly distributed across a larger group of players- there are certainly scenarios where running uptempo can help you take advantage of your opponents short bench.

For example - if I have a bench the runs 12 deep and everyone is rated at a 75 and my opponent has 5 starters rated at 80 and a bench full of walk ons - I am absolutely running up tempo against that team and it definitely will give me an advantage.

In cubcub's scenario- I'd have to see the rosters involved, however if his starters were a little closer to his opponents starters and the bench players were as much better as he says, I would certainly give up tempo a shot and see what happens. Slow down isn't going to provide him any ADVANTAGE, it's only trying to increase variance and just hoping to get lucky.