Does the Groundball/Flyball rating matter for a pitcher. If so, what do you want it to be, lower or higher?

Yes, the higher the number, the better he is at inducing groundballs. You would prefer the number to be higher to avoid letting up HRs. If you play in a hitter's ballpark, even more important to limit the HRs.

Posted by Rohockey10 on 9/25/2018 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Yes, the higher the number, the better he is at inducing groundballs. You would prefer the number to be higher to avoid letting up HRs. If you play in a hitter's ballpark, even more important to limit the HRs.

Is it one of the major ratings?

I think most would agree that Velocity and GB/FB are secondary ratings and least important and Control/vR/P1 are most important

I consider GB/FB to be a primary rating. Along with Control, vR, and P1.

Yes and no... the ratings all work together. I had for the longest time a one-two SP pair, one with very high GB and the other with very low. They gave up flyballs at the rate one would expect, but they actually gave up HRs at the same rate. The GB guy has lesser splits. The FB guy had excellent pitches. In terms of the slugging they gave up, it evened out.

Yeah, PJFoster has made the claim quite a bit that GB/FB has no affect on the number of HR's allowed. There is another thread about this that is more in depth, but i'm too lazy to look for it.

Posted by bjschumacher on 9/25/2018 5:05:00 PM (view original):
I consider GB/FB to be a primary rating. Along with Control, vR, and P1.

I rank the pitching ratings:
Control and VsR highest and about equal
VsL and GB/FB next, and much less important than the first two, with VsL slightly higher than GB/FB
P1 and P2 next, somewhat but not hugely less important than GB/FB and roughly equal

Vel-- not at all used

I'm glad to have made an appearance on this thread haha

I basically agree with everything damage said here. If you took two pitchers with identical control, splits, and pitches, but one with 99 vel + 99 gbfb and the other 10 vel + 10 gbfb, they would theoretically have the same Avg, isolated discipline, and slugging percentage (and home runs per batters faced) but the lower vel + gbfb would have a substiatially higher ERA and also more unearned runs because of the difference in the volume of balls in play. Those two attributes are ERA modifiers. A strikeout doesn't matter for a hitter but it's the best out for a pitcher

Splits are the most important thing by a mile, control is very important, pitches are very valuable (average pitch, for which p1 & p2 are most responsible for raising the average), and dur + Stam are good of course too. Every pitching attribute is good haha

Posted by pjfoster13 on 10/6/2018 5:57:00 PM (view original):
I'm glad to have made an appearance on this thread haha

I basically agree with everything damage said here. If you took two pitchers with identical control, splits, and pitches, but one with 99 vel + 99 gbfb and the other 10 vel + 10 gbfb, they would theoretically have the same Avg, isolated discipline, and slugging percentage (and home runs per batters faced) but the lower vel + gbfb would have a substiatially higher ERA and also more unearned runs because of the difference in the volume of balls in play. Those two attributes are ERA modifiers. A strikeout doesn't matter for a hitter but it's the best out for a pitcher

Splits are the most important thing by a mile, control is very important, pitches are very valuable (average pitch, for which p1 & p2 are most responsible for raising the average), and dur + Stam are good of course too. Every pitching attribute is good haha

So with hitters, a guy could have terrible contract and great power and splits and still be super effective or have great contact and terrible power and great splits and still be effective. Can a pitcher have terrible command, or terrible pitches and still be effective?

Posted by Sportsbulls on 10/6/2018 6:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pjfoster13 on 10/6/2018 5:57:00 PM (view original):
I'm glad to have made an appearance on this thread haha

I basically agree with everything damage said here. If you took two pitchers with identical control, splits, and pitches, but one with 99 vel + 99 gbfb and the other 10 vel + 10 gbfb, they would theoretically have the same Avg, isolated discipline, and slugging percentage (and home runs per batters faced) but the lower vel + gbfb would have a substiatially higher ERA and also more unearned runs because of the difference in the volume of balls in play. Those two attributes are ERA modifiers. A strikeout doesn't matter for a hitter but it's the best out for a pitcher

Splits are the most important thing by a mile, control is very important, pitches are very valuable (average pitch, for which p1 & p2 are most responsible for raising the average), and dur + Stam are good of course too. Every pitching attribute is good haha

So with hitters, a guy could have terrible contract and great power and splits and still be super effective or have great contact and terrible power and great splits and still be effective. Can a pitcher have terrible command, or terrible pitches and still be effective?

I'm gonna say no. Anything is possible in the short term, but I won't use a pitcher in the majors with Control under 40. I've pretty much found that's as low as they can go to have any sustained effectiveness in the majors.
As for pitch ratings, take a look at older pitchers, age 38 and up. Even the great ones, sometimes all their other ratings - even splits - remain elite, but their pitch ratings start to deteriorate as early as age 35 or 36. A P1 has to be at least 70, and a P2 has to be at least 60 in the majors. Just my opinion, but any players having success lower than that IMO have to be huge outliers.

Posted by damag on 10/6/2018 8:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 10/6/2018 6:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pjfoster13 on 10/6/2018 5:57:00 PM (view original):
I'm glad to have made an appearance on this thread haha

I basically agree with everything damage said here. If you took two pitchers with identical control, splits, and pitches, but one with 99 vel + 99 gbfb and the other 10 vel + 10 gbfb, they would theoretically have the same Avg, isolated discipline, and slugging percentage (and home runs per batters faced) but the lower vel + gbfb would have a substiatially higher ERA and also more unearned runs because of the difference in the volume of balls in play. Those two attributes are ERA modifiers. A strikeout doesn't matter for a hitter but it's the best out for a pitcher

Splits are the most important thing by a mile, control is very important, pitches are very valuable (average pitch, for which p1 & p2 are most responsible for raising the average), and dur + Stam are good of course too. Every pitching attribute is good haha

So with hitters, a guy could have terrible contract and great power and splits and still be super effective or have great contact and terrible power and great splits and still be effective. Can a pitcher have terrible command, or terrible pitches and still be effective?

I'm gonna say no. Anything is possible in the short term, but I won't use a pitcher in the majors with Control under 40. I've pretty much found that's as low as they can go to have any sustained effectiveness in the majors.
As for pitch ratings, take a look at older pitchers, age 38 and up. Even the great ones, sometimes all their other ratings - even splits - remain elite, but their pitch ratings start to deteriorate as early as age 35 or 36. A P1 has to be at least 70, and a P2 has to be at least 60 in the majors. Just my opinion, but any players having success lower than that IMO have to be huge outliers.

Ok, what are the worst splits someone can have to where they're effective.

This game is great. So many unique philosophies of rating players. I evaluate pitchers on every category. You can find value in pitchers that have splits in the low 60s and sometimes pitchers with a vsR split in the mid to high 50s can still be effective. If a pitcher has vsL at 70+ and vsR split at 55, he can still be effective if his 1st pitch is 88+, and his gb/fb + velocity is over 110. I have found that pitchers that have high velocity will have a few ticks added to their k rate. Pitchers with high gb/fb will create more ground balls. A pitcher with 55+ in both ground ball and velocity is rosterable even with low splits.

The type of pitcher mentioned above is not going to make the all star team, but he can be a decent add. In my opinion, this type of pitcher is better than the AAAA pitcher that you add to roster because he is league minimum. You know the guy with 70- control, splits in the mid 50s or low 60s, with 50- vel and 50- gb and all pitches 75-. These type of pitchers will only pitch decent (under 5.00 era) if you have lights out (Houston Astros) defense or if you happen to sign them and they have a career year.

Also, I value control as much as the guy above, but there are exceptions. A pitcher with low control, but high splits, pitches, ground ball and velocity can still be effective in your bullpen. I had a guy where his control was 37, but had splits in the low 80s, velocity in the 90s, gb of 80+ and 1st in the high 80s. He had starting pitching durability and control, but I put him as a long closer that came in during the seventh inning and he had 10 wins and 42 saves. I would not seek out this type of pitcher and pay him a market value salary. However, if he were still around after rule five draft and I needed to fill a roster spot, he would be on on targets of guys you can get for below market value.

Lowest splits - J.O. Feliz has been a longtime starter for me. Never my #1 guy, and yes I take him out of the rotation come playoffs. But you can see how his other ratings make him effective other than splits.

In this same league, there was a longtime SP who received strong HOF consideration. He was a lefty with a 65 VsR at his peak, but all his other ratings were seriously elite. Won 211 and lost 124.

Hitters are a little bit of a different conversation as to what combinations lead to which outputs

Basically, for pitchers the WHIP attributes are splits (2R + L) and control. Every 0.05 increment of WHIP corresponds to a certain expected ERA relative to average conditions. Guys with better K-rate and GBFB have a lower ERA relative to WHIP because baserunners advance differently (less often) and therefore have less value per unit. Guys with lower K-rate and GBFB have a higher ERA relative to WHIP

vR is the most important attribute but guys can survive without it when the other attributes are very good.