So, I have on my hands a very good team that has a lot of young talent and more in the minor league pipeline. I think I should be a contender for a solid 10-12 seasons, maybe more if all goes well. My guess is that most drafts I'll be picking near the end of round 1, and I can't imagine picking any higher than 20th, barring some fluke injury ravaged season, although I've got 20 training/20 medical, so that's not a major concern.

Advanced is at zero. I've been scaling down college for a few years, working to get it to 0 (will be 4 next season). High school is currently at 20, and international is currently at 20. I'm considering trending high school toward zero as well, and loading up all my prospect spending on one or two internationals a year, where I know I can get impact talent rather than the kind of quad-A dregs you usually find at the bottom of round one and with the comp picks.

To keep all my young talent through their primes, I won't be able to afford many outside free agents/type A guys, so I would essentially be punting on my draft picks.

Has anyone used this strategy? Is it sustainable, and what are the best ways to execute it? I'm guessing I should be trading away guys who won't re-sign in the last year of a deal for known commodities. What else?

I know people use this strategy-- but I've never to my knowledge been in a world with anyone who did, because to go 20 HS/0 COL/0 INTL you can get away with $6M in prospect, and to go 0 HS/0 COL/20 INTL you need $20M prospect.

I do pay with a guy who goes 0/0/0 and just trades his first pick always; he's basically playing roto. He runs $145 +/- 4M salary, $7 or 8M coaches, $6M prospect, and presumably $20M in training and medical that floats. And he wins a ton with this strategy.

To really max out this strategy, the key is to trade away your very good players early in their primes, before they max out contract value. Trade only for other teams' top prospects. That way you get draft picks you never should have had, and your payroll never gets too high so you can go after IFAs endlessly. Your roster ends up being only IFAs and other teams' draftees. The only players you keep are the true HOFers, and only if they're affordable. But you need to find other owners willing to overpay your players for reputation and past production.

Another trick is also that you don't NEED 20 ITL. If you did 10 ITL you'd still see some top guys but you'd be able to spend extra on the bids.

You need ITL for the volume but you don't need it for the accuracy. If it tells you a guy is gonna be 85 OVR, he's probably going to be something very close to that. You don't really need to know if a guy is projected for exactly 78 power vs. exactly 72 power. Use the tens digit to estimate because youre assuming it's not exactly right anyways

Hold on. We all know that even at 20 million scouting, you don't see every prospect. But it still stands to reason that you're giving yourself the best chance to see as many as possible. If you go all in on IFAs, I agree that you don't need exact projections - and you aren't going to get those, anyway - but why would you increase your chance of missing out on the best ones?

I know for sure that at less than 20 million, I've missed out on seeing better prospects that other owners have bid on. If I'm sitting waiting to drop 30+ mil on a guaranteed all star, I don't want to miss him because I didn't budget for it.

This is my view on it as well, damag. If this is the strategy I decide to pursue, I feel like I wouldn’t want to limit my options.

It's worth noting that at $20M you will still not see some (substantial) prospects.

Posted by opie100 on 2/18/2019 11:23:00 PM (view original):
It's worth noting that at $20M you will still not see some (substantial) prospects.

Sure. I think my question is ultimately about budgeting efficiency.

If I’m certain that I won’t be in position to draft all-star caliber talent anytime soon, then isn’t spending any cursory amount on HS or college close to a waste? With an all-in emphasis on intl, at least I can all but guarantee getting one or two guys every year who will really contribute.

It feels like I’m at a crossroads over how to replenish for the long term while also starting to pay premiums for select veterans as they reach their second contracts. I suppose that’s just the game, the dilemma we all face, and I’ve got to figure out how long I can afford the best internationals.

Posted by LoboOne04 on 2/18/2019 11:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by opie100 on 2/18/2019 11:23:00 PM (view original):
It's worth noting that at $20M you will still not see some (substantial) prospects.

Sure. I think my question is ultimately about budgeting efficiency.

If I’m certain that I won’t be in position to draft all-star caliber talent anytime soon, then isn’t spending any cursory amount on HS or college close to a waste? With an all-in emphasis on intl, at least I can all but guarantee getting one or two guys every year who will really contribute.

It feels like I’m at a crossroads over how to replenish for the long term while also starting to pay premiums for select veterans as they reach their second contracts. I suppose that’s just the game, the dilemma we all face, and I’ve got to figure out how long I can afford the best internationals.

If you can pull it off you can really create a dynasty but its not easy and you have to have other teams looking to trade with you.

If you want successful examples check out Cheyenne and El Passo in the league Damag and I are in. (Riley).

Posted by hockey1984 on 2/19/2019 7:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by LoboOne04 on 2/18/2019 11:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by opie100 on 2/18/2019 11:23:00 PM (view original):
It's worth noting that at $20M you will still not see some (substantial) prospects.

Sure. I think my question is ultimately about budgeting efficiency.

If I’m certain that I won’t be in position to draft all-star caliber talent anytime soon, then isn’t spending any cursory amount on HS or college close to a waste? With an all-in emphasis on intl, at least I can all but guarantee getting one or two guys every year who will really contribute.

It feels like I’m at a crossroads over how to replenish for the long term while also starting to pay premiums for select veterans as they reach their second contracts. I suppose that’s just the game, the dilemma we all face, and I’ve got to figure out how long I can afford the best internationals.

If you can pull it off you can really create a dynasty but its not easy and you have to have other teams looking to trade with you.

If you want successful examples check out Cheyenne and El Passo in the league Damag and I are in. (Riley).

Thanks hockey. That El Paso team is ridiculous, and I see that he has made the same strategy work in multiple leagues, so I guess I have fulfilled my confirmation bias.

In this interview I found with him, I can gather his typical budget structure: https://www.foxsports.com/whatifsports/story/user-interview-bjb2378-060916

A big item there is the 0 medical. Anybody have experience with that? Did you like it, hate it? What sort of threshold of an injury rating would you not go below?

Posted by LoboOne04 on 2/19/2019 10:42:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hockey1984 on 2/19/2019 7:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by LoboOne04 on 2/18/2019 11:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by opie100 on 2/18/2019 11:23:00 PM (view original):
It's worth noting that at $20M you will still not see some (substantial) prospects.

Sure. I think my question is ultimately about budgeting efficiency.

If I’m certain that I won’t be in position to draft all-star caliber talent anytime soon, then isn’t spending any cursory amount on HS or college close to a waste? With an all-in emphasis on intl, at least I can all but guarantee getting one or two guys every year who will really contribute.

It feels like I’m at a crossroads over how to replenish for the long term while also starting to pay premiums for select veterans as they reach their second contracts. I suppose that’s just the game, the dilemma we all face, and I’ve got to figure out how long I can afford the best internationals.

If you can pull it off you can really create a dynasty but its not easy and you have to have other teams looking to trade with you.

If you want successful examples check out Cheyenne and El Passo in the league Damag and I are in. (Riley).

Thanks hockey. That El Paso team is ridiculous, and I see that he has made the same strategy work in multiple leagues, so I guess I have fulfilled my confirmation bias.

In this interview I found with him, I can gather his typical budget structure: https://www.foxsports.com/whatifsports/story/user-interview-bjb2378-060916

A big item there is the 0 medical. Anybody have experience with that? Did you like it, hate it? What sort of threshold of an injury rating would you not go below?

I'm not a fan of 0 medical but to go his route its a risk you have to take. I'd say anyone under 50 health is a no no and even under 60 is still iffy. If a guy has a 60 day DL injury I'd guess he is pretty much a write off though I have never gone 0 medical so I can't say. Someone else may have to chime in on this one.

Zero medical is part of the strategy, as well as minimal coaching.

The entire strategy is based on the premise that the only thing that matters is elite cost controlled high rating players. Talent above all else. Coaching matters not at all.

If a player gets injured with zero medical, they're busted. That's it. Trade them away. If they were super elite to begin with, then after a critical injury they may still be all star level. I've seen it happen.

Minimize all other budget categories. Guarantee yourself 30 to 40 mil in prospect money to lock down the one surefire HOF player when he comes along.

Your roster will have the best IFA to come out every season. Is that enough to assure sustained success? No.

Take a look at the rosters of teams which use this strategy successfully. The players will all be big IFAs or other teams' top draft choices. The only players originally drafted by the franchise, in their low first round slots, will be role players like defensive backups, catchers, and DHs.

What truly makes the strategy work, IMO, is repeatedly turning your own former all stars, big money IFAs, and "first rounders" - even if they've been busted - into other teams' top prospects via trade. All you need is one owner who doesn't mind taking on a big contract to put them over the hump, or is just tired of losing and wants a big name player, or doesn't look at the player card too closely.

You get the top prospects AND the top IFAs. For sustainable success, it's more aggressive but more repeatable than tanking your way to an all star team.

Thanks damag!

I've been at zero HS / zero College / 20 INT for a few seasons in a row now. I also have 20/20 Training/Medical and generally start 20 in Prospect. If I need to dip into the reserves, I have gone down on INT, but I prefer not to.

I've been 0 HS / 0 College (20/20 Med/training) since S31 (we just finished S44). Since S15, I've been 0 / 0 in 26 of the 30 seasons.

We've had reasonably good success in a competitive World. Our OVR ranking is generally in the bottom half, but that's not what translates to wins and losses.

We just finished the playoffs, here is my roster - https://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/FranchiseRatings.aspx?fid=3973

We recently had an influx of young pitching (which has not been common), but here's where the contributors came from.

Players with 200+ PA
FA signings - the middling guys aren't usually worth it in my opinion. If there is a stud, go get him. Otherwise, not generally worth the money.
Karl Floyd
Doug Hill
Benito Olivo
Chip Rader

Trades
Eddie Jones
Shane Lemon
Floyd Purcell

Draft
Lou Scott (1.34)

Rule 5
Russell Lowery
Desmond Higginson

IFA
Oswaldo Ynoa ($7.1M)
Willie Johnson ($60k)

All Pitchers
FA signings
Martin Clayton
Radhames Hernandez

Trades (*Morgan and Logan came together in a deal for a stud SP I'd signed to a max deal in his prime. The other team was making a run (won its division for the next three seasons, and was willing to give up two good prospects for the stud).
Kenny Morgan*
Ted Logan*
Yorman Pujols
John Chiba

IFA
Ordomar Pineiro ($10.6M)
Carlos Arias ($30M)
Daisuke Woo ($9M)

Claimed off waivers
Pedro Melendez
Mike Leathersich
Kent Horton
Tom Pittinger

It's do-able, but you have to take care to understand how the pieces of your roster can fit together, rather than just trying to accumulate the best players at every position.

Just because a "lesser" team can't find a role for a guy, doesn't mean your "better" team should assume the same is true.

EDIT - Also, play with contract terms (length and distribution of money). He's past his prime now, but https://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerStats.aspx?pid=6636641 (Doug Hill) is a good example. I had some $ left to burn a few seasons ago, so he got a $9.9M bonus in S40, and he's been playing for the league minimum for me since.