I get why people want it and I am fine with it but you have to learn to crawl and walk before you run:

1. In other countries where it exists, they are smaller AND education is basically free or inexpensive. In the US we have the best schools but it costs an average of $400k in tuition to become a doctor. Why would people still do that if they cannot get compensated for it and via Universal Care their compensation would be lower.
2. We need to ban lobbyists. They are illegal in most of those countries. Lobbyists push for politicians to enable the insurance companies to make $$$. Under the ACA the insurance companies have seen record profits. For you bleeding heart leftists, this should be break even, correct?
3. You have to raise taxes.

Until you fix the three above, debating Universal Healthcare is not practical. Learn to crawl and walk before you run. You just want to RUN RUN RUN!!!

I agree that our insurance system is broken. Insurance companies are profit driven and there are a ton of administrative costs to boot. There is a better solution but it is NOT Universal Healthcare because we cannot get there until we fix the aforementioned three items listed.

So let's do those three things.

Posted by tangplay on 3/4/2019 2:00:00 PM (view original):
So let's do those three things.

You think poof they are done. Let's debate those three "thing" before we debate universal healthcare. Agreed?

Start with free tuition. How do you force Harvard, the best med school in the world to give free tuition?

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/4/2019 2:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 3/4/2019 2:00:00 PM (view original):
So let's do those three things.

You think poof they are done. Let's debate those three "thing" before we debate universal healthcare. Agreed?

Start with free tuition. How do you force Harvard, the best med school in the world to give free tuition?

Harvard, at least at the undergrad level, already does give free tuition. And room and board. So do all the other Ivy League schools and Stanford.

Posted by bad_luck on 3/4/2019 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/4/2019 2:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 3/4/2019 2:00:00 PM (view original):
So let's do those three things.

You think poof they are done. Let's debate those three "thing" before we debate universal healthcare. Agreed?

Start with free tuition. How do you force Harvard, the best med school in the world to give free tuition?

Harvard, at least at the undergrad level, already does give free tuition. And room and board. So do all the other Ivy League schools and Stanford.

They do not and undergrad is not Medical School. Thank you for taking the conversation sideways.

The total 2018-2019 cost of attending Harvard College without financial aid is$46,340 for tuition and $67,580 for tuition, room, board, and fees combined.

Any student admitted to Harvard undergrad with family incomes below $60k gets free room and board. Between $60k and $150k, you pay between 1% and 10% of family income depending on circumstances.

Above $150k, the cost to attend is a case by case basis (total family assets, cost of living, family debt, etc all taken into account).

So yeah, if your family is wealthy, you’re paying the full $70k a year. But most people aren’t wealthy and won’t have to pay that.

Posted by bad_luck on 3/4/2019 2:22:00 PM (view original):
Any student admitted to Harvard undergrad with family incomes below $60k gets free room and board. Between $60k and $150k, you pay between 1% and 10% of family income depending on circumstances.

Above $150k, the cost to attend is a case by case basis (total family assets, cost of living, family debt, etc all taken into account).

So yeah, if your family is wealthy, you’re paying the full $70k a year. But most people aren’t wealthy and won’t have to pay that.

MOST?

You have stats for that and again it is not free and you said ALL pay nothing. And again we are discussing Medical School.

Where did I say ALL pay nothing?

"Harvard, at least at the undergrad level, already does give free tuition. And room and board. So do all the other Ivy League schools and Stanford."

Your implication to my initial post is that we already have free tuition. We don't. All schools have some scholarship/needs students but in Euro it is MOST. Oranges and Apples.

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/4/2019 2:37:00 PM (view original):
"Harvard, at least at the undergrad level, already does give free tuition. And room and board. So do all the other Ivy League schools and Stanford."

Your implication to my initial post is that we already have free tuition. We don't. All schools have some scholarship/needs students but in Euro it is MOST. Oranges and Apples.

My implication was that Harvard gives free tuition. Which it does.

Off point.

The issue with medical costs is just that, the COST of services.

Most are entirely arbitrary and capricious.
A "procedure" performed costs a varying amount based on who is paying the bill.
The result is that (for a wild unsubstantiated example) for treatment of an infected wound, the cost to insurance Co. A might be $4.20 let's say.
That's what the Ins. Co. will pay the provider OR you will pay IF you haven't met your deducible.
They same thing with Ins. Co. B might be (say) $9.10.

BUT, without insurance, without some, negotiated between big Corps, agreed upon established fee for that procedure, YOU, (the actual patient) will be sent a bill for (say) $124.88
Price Gouged because YOU didn't have someone negotiating an actual fair price for the delivery of services.
This happens 1000's of times every day in every state!!
And you can multiply the amount by about 10 to 20 times because the average medical procedure runs well more than 4 to 9 bucks!!

Someones making far too much money off of folk's medical needs!!!
Wanna fix the problem? Follow the money, find where it's going, and eliminate those guys@!!

Bob, check out laser eye surgery. It is not covered by insurance and the costs have gone down to as low as $400 per eye. Why? Capitalism and no insurance companies/administrators in between. More doctors got into the business so supply increased and prices went down. Capitalism works but when you have insurance companies in the mix, they ruin it.

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/4/2019 1:26:00 PM (view original):
I get why people want it and I am fine with it but you have to learn to crawl and walk before you run:

1. In other countries where it exists, they are smaller AND education is basically free or inexpensive. In the US we have the best schools but it costs an average of $400k in tuition to become a doctor. Why would people still do that if they cannot get compensated for it and via Universal Care their compensation would be lower.
2. We need to ban lobbyists. They are illegal in most of those countries. Lobbyists push for politicians to enable the insurance companies to make $$$. Under the ACA the insurance companies have seen record profits. For you bleeding heart leftists, this should be break even, correct?
3. You have to raise taxes.

Until you fix the three above, debating Universal Healthcare is not practical. Learn to crawl and walk before you run. You just want to RUN RUN RUN!!!

I agree that our insurance system is broken. Insurance companies are profit driven and there are a ton of administrative costs to boot. There is a better solution but it is NOT Universal Healthcare because we cannot get there until we fix the aforementioned three items listed.

1. I would hope most doctors do not go in to medicine solely to make money but to help people. Any doctor whose main goal in becoming a doctor was to make money is not someone I want as a doctor.
2. Go for it. Ban lobbyist. hey serve very little purpose as far as I can see.
3. Not sure you have to raise taxes. Just redirect some of them.

Doctors are capitalists too, my friend.

Posted by laramiebob on 3/4/2019 2:49:00 PM (view original):
Off point.

The issue with medical costs is just that, the COST of services.

Most are entirely arbitrary and capricious.
A "procedure" performed costs a varying amount based on who is paying the bill.
The result is that (for a wild unsubstantiated example) for treatment of an infected wound, the cost to insurance Co. A might be $4.20 let's say.
That's what the Ins. Co. will pay the provider OR you will pay IF you haven't met your deducible.
They same thing with Ins. Co. B might be (say) $9.10.

BUT, without insurance, without some, negotiated between big Corps, agreed upon established fee for that procedure, YOU, (the actual patient) will be sent a bill for (say) $124.88
Price Gouged because YOU didn't have someone negotiating an actual fair price for the delivery of services.
This happens 1000's of times every day in every state!!
And you can multiply the amount by about 10 to 20 times because the average medical procedure runs well more than 4 to 9 bucks!!

Someones making far too much money off of folk's medical needs!!!
Wanna fix the problem? Follow the money, find where it's going, and eliminate those guys@!!

I like you.