is it normal to promise say 15m after having say 25m of promise, and for the consequence to be that the dude basically drops you off the considering list completely? and all the actions go back to unlocked? that seems extremely severe and not quite right.

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/6/2019 6:54:00 PM (view original):
is it normal to promise say 15m after having say 25m of promise, and for the consequence to be that the dude basically drops you off the considering list completely? and all the actions go back to unlocked? that seems extremely severe and not quite right.

I believe in a promise system you just go down the list.

Reducing promised minutes has a detrimental effect on your recruiting actions. Some recruits will basically write you off after reducing their promised minutes to the point that no amount of effort will ever get them interested in your school again.

Posted by dacamel14 on 7/6/2019 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Reducing promised minutes has a detrimental effect on your recruiting actions. Some recruits will basically write you off after reducing their promised minutes to the point that no amount of effort will ever get them interested in your school again.

This.

And also, fifteen minutes are enough to get the Want to Play preference to "Very Good" if the recruit has it. I might be wrong, but I don't think there is any extra recruiting benefit to promising twenty or twenty-five minutes.

Posted by pallas on 7/6/2019 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacamel14 on 7/6/2019 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Reducing promised minutes has a detrimental effect on your recruiting actions. Some recruits will basically write you off after reducing their promised minutes to the point that no amount of effort will ever get them interested in your school again.

This.

And also, fifteen minutes are enough to get the Want to Play preference to "Very Good" if the recruit has it. I might be wrong, but I don't think there is any extra recruiting benefit to promising twenty or twenty-five minutes.

Why wouldn't there be? Seble even stated there were different levels of very good.

Posted by pallas on 7/6/2019 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacamel14 on 7/6/2019 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Reducing promised minutes has a detrimental effect on your recruiting actions. Some recruits will basically write you off after reducing their promised minutes to the point that no amount of effort will ever get them interested in your school again.

This.

And also, fifteen minutes are enough to get the Want to Play preference to "Very Good" if the recruit has it. I might be wrong, but I don't think there is any extra recruiting benefit to promising twenty or twenty-five minutes.

There is extra recruiting benefit to more minutes. More minutes has increased effect on the wants to play modifier (in the same way 10 miles away has more value than 150 miles away for a player who wants to be close to home). It also has more stand alone value, which applies to anyone. How much more is debatable, and would be impossible to pinpoint without collusion.

The purpose for many (if not most, i think it’s most) players basically dropping you for decreasing minutes is to prevent guys from scaring rivals away early with big promises, then walking them back when the others have backed off, or no expected challenge emerges. Bid what he’s worth to you. IRL, it makes sense for this kind of move to significantly damage trust. It’s been this way since beta.

Posted by shoe3 on 7/6/2019 8:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pallas on 7/6/2019 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacamel14 on 7/6/2019 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Reducing promised minutes has a detrimental effect on your recruiting actions. Some recruits will basically write you off after reducing their promised minutes to the point that no amount of effort will ever get them interested in your school again.

This.

And also, fifteen minutes are enough to get the Want to Play preference to "Very Good" if the recruit has it. I might be wrong, but I don't think there is any extra recruiting benefit to promising twenty or twenty-five minutes.

There is extra recruiting benefit to more minutes. More minutes has increased effect on the wants to play modifier (in the same way 10 miles away has more value than 150 miles away for a player who wants to be close to home). It also has more stand alone value, which applies to anyone. How much more is debatable, and would be impossible to pinpoint without collusion.

The purpose for many (if not most, i think it’s most) players basically dropping you for decreasing minutes is to prevent guys from scaring rivals away early with big promises, then walking them back when the others have backed off, or no expected challenge emerges. Bid what he’s worth to you. IRL, it makes sense for this kind of move to significantly damage trust. It’s been this way since beta.

i agree with you generally, but i reject the premise that it is impossible to pinpoint (or identify a reasonably/acceptable tight bound) the value of these items without collusion. i may fail, but i intend to know the difference and i don't intend to collude to find out!

Posted by thewizard17 on 7/6/2019 8:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pallas on 7/6/2019 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacamel14 on 7/6/2019 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Reducing promised minutes has a detrimental effect on your recruiting actions. Some recruits will basically write you off after reducing their promised minutes to the point that no amount of effort will ever get them interested in your school again.

This.

And also, fifteen minutes are enough to get the Want to Play preference to "Very Good" if the recruit has it. I might be wrong, but I don't think there is any extra recruiting benefit to promising twenty or twenty-five minutes.

Why wouldn't there be? Seble even stated there were different levels of very good.

i believe what seble was saying there (even though im not familiar with what he said) is effectively that each preference is a continuum, let's say from -10 to +10 (doesn't matter what it really is). neutral might be -2 to 2, good might be 3 to 6.5, and very good 6.5 to 10 - or whatever.

even though not all very goods are created equal, most likely, the practical difference between a very high very good vs a very low very good is pretty small. for some other stuff like success and value of a conference, i suspect its pretty easy to be a 10/10 very good (or whatever), i don't think its the case where a team with 5 straight titles is going to have an advantage over a team with 5 straight s16s, because that 5 straight s16s is already decent above what it takes to get to very good (i think - and if i'm off on the details, i don't think i'm off on the general concept), so its already a 10/10 or damn close.

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/6/2019 9:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 7/6/2019 8:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by pallas on 7/6/2019 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacamel14 on 7/6/2019 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Reducing promised minutes has a detrimental effect on your recruiting actions. Some recruits will basically write you off after reducing their promised minutes to the point that no amount of effort will ever get them interested in your school again.

This.

And also, fifteen minutes are enough to get the Want to Play preference to "Very Good" if the recruit has it. I might be wrong, but I don't think there is any extra recruiting benefit to promising twenty or twenty-five minutes.

There is extra recruiting benefit to more minutes. More minutes has increased effect on the wants to play modifier (in the same way 10 miles away has more value than 150 miles away for a player who wants to be close to home). It also has more stand alone value, which applies to anyone. How much more is debatable, and would be impossible to pinpoint without collusion.

The purpose for many (if not most, i think it’s most) players basically dropping you for decreasing minutes is to prevent guys from scaring rivals away early with big promises, then walking them back when the others have backed off, or no expected challenge emerges. Bid what he’s worth to you. IRL, it makes sense for this kind of move to significantly damage trust. It’s been this way since beta.

i agree with you generally, but i reject the premise that it is impossible to pinpoint (or identify a reasonably/acceptable tight bound) the value of these items without collusion. i may fail, but i intend to know the difference and i don't intend to collude to find out!

I’m sure you can get reasonably close, lots of us are reasonably close in understanding the impact of a 10 minute promise difference. If you can *pinpoint* it and express it mathematically without collusion (hell, even with collusion), I suspect Seble will have to consider his efforts in vain.

This thread went into a few different layers, but as far as reducing minutes, i do this all the time! It has to be the right scenario for it to work efficiently (so the player won't tell you to F off!). But i literally do this often now. I would rather not share with the world how I'm able to pull it off consistently. But a lot of you smart coaches can figure out the scheme behind it. Only problem is that you can only reduce to 10 min, and not 0 of course. Because you can't delete the promise as a whole once it's processed.

Also, i did something new just a couple days ago, not sure if any of you have seen this.... long story short, found a recruit i liked that had 7 green cores and a 76 WE. He had the wants to play preference. I offered him 15 minutes and all my visits i had to offer, as soon as i unlocked him. Then, 10 cycles or so later, i clicked the planned redshirt button alone that cycle (i didn't add anymore visits or promises).....

He accepted it and signed with me! Blew my mind. What player would want to play, fall in love with a school that promised him the 15 minutes of playing time he wanted, and then randomly be happy accepting the redshirt i forced on him?

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/6/2019 10:30:00 PM (view original):
This thread went into a few different layers, but as far as reducing minutes, i do this all the time! It has to be the right scenario for it to work efficiently (so the player won't tell you to F off!). But i literally do this often now. I would rather not share with the world how I'm able to pull it off consistently. But a lot of you smart coaches can figure out the scheme behind it. Only problem is that you can only reduce to 10 min, and not 0 of course. Because you can't delete the promise as a whole once it's processed.

Also, i did something new just a couple days ago, not sure if any of you have seen this.... long story short, found a recruit i liked that had 7 green cores and a 76 WE. He had the wants to play preference. I offered him 15 minutes and all my visits i had to offer, as soon as i unlocked him. Then, 10 cycles or so later, i clicked the planned redshirt button alone that cycle (i didn't add anymore visits or promises).....

He accepted it and signed with me! Blew my mind. What player would want to play, fall in love with a school that promised him the 15 minutes of playing time he wanted, and then randomly be happy accepting the redshirt i forced on him?

I didn't think you could redshirt a player you'd made starts/minutes promises to. That seems like a rather significant bug.

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/6/2019 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/6/2019 10:30:00 PM (view original):
This thread went into a few different layers, but as far as reducing minutes, i do this all the time! It has to be the right scenario for it to work efficiently (so the player won't tell you to F off!). But i literally do this often now. I would rather not share with the world how I'm able to pull it off consistently. But a lot of you smart coaches can figure out the scheme behind it. Only problem is that you can only reduce to 10 min, and not 0 of course. Because you can't delete the promise as a whole once it's processed.

Also, i did something new just a couple days ago, not sure if any of you have seen this.... long story short, found a recruit i liked that had 7 green cores and a 76 WE. He had the wants to play preference. I offered him 15 minutes and all my visits i had to offer, as soon as i unlocked him. Then, 10 cycles or so later, i clicked the planned redshirt button alone that cycle (i didn't add anymore visits or promises).....

He accepted it and signed with me! Blew my mind. What player would want to play, fall in love with a school that promised him the 15 minutes of playing time he wanted, and then randomly be happy accepting the redshirt i forced on him?

I didn't think you could redshirt a player you'd made starts/minutes promises to. That seems like a rather significant bug.

Agreed. Especially players with wants to play preference. It's the first time I've ever seen it myself. I posted to see if others had seen that happen before. I know its not the norm. Personally, every other time I've offered the redshirt, the recruit said screw you and dropped to 0 in everything.

The only reason i even attempted it this time, is because i had all 12 players returning. And i really didn't plan on cutting a player for him. So i was just screwing around. When he accepted it, i decided it was more than worth it to cut a player, and i cut a good one too. But with the 76 WE, all the greens, and a redshirt, he may end up +700 by the end of his "playing" freshman season. AND have good IQs by then. I didnt wanna pass that up.

Informing of a RS to withdraw promises is not a bug, it's a tactic. It has been discussed before and, obviously, is not something you can effectively use in a recruiting battle.

Posted by marl_karx on 7/7/2019 1:56:00 PM (view original):
Informing of a RS to withdraw promises is not a bug, it's a tactic. It has been discussed before and, obviously, is not something you can effectively use in a recruiting battle.

Explain 'is not something you can effectively use in a recruiting battle'

I tried it, and it worked out for me oddly enough. So are you saying it's not a good idea? Or it "never" works? Or something different?

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/7/2019 12:00:00 AM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/6/2019 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 7/6/2019 10:30:00 PM (view original):
This thread went into a few different layers, but as far as reducing minutes, i do this all the time! It has to be the right scenario for it to work efficiently (so the player won't tell you to F off!). But i literally do this often now. I would rather not share with the world how I'm able to pull it off consistently. But a lot of you smart coaches can figure out the scheme behind it. Only problem is that you can only reduce to 10 min, and not 0 of course. Because you can't delete the promise as a whole once it's processed.

Also, i did something new just a couple days ago, not sure if any of you have seen this.... long story short, found a recruit i liked that had 7 green cores and a 76 WE. He had the wants to play preference. I offered him 15 minutes and all my visits i had to offer, as soon as i unlocked him. Then, 10 cycles or so later, i clicked the planned redshirt button alone that cycle (i didn't add anymore visits or promises).....

He accepted it and signed with me! Blew my mind. What player would want to play, fall in love with a school that promised him the 15 minutes of playing time he wanted, and then randomly be happy accepting the redshirt i forced on him?

I didn't think you could redshirt a player you'd made starts/minutes promises to. That seems like a rather significant bug.

Agreed. Especially players with wants to play preference. It's the first time I've ever seen it myself. I posted to see if others had seen that happen before. I know its not the norm. Personally, every other time I've offered the redshirt, the recruit said screw you and dropped to 0 in everything.

The only reason i even attempted it this time, is because i had all 12 players returning. And i really didn't plan on cutting a player for him. So i was just screwing around. When he accepted it, i decided it was more than worth it to cut a player, and i cut a good one too. But with the 76 WE, all the greens, and a redshirt, he may end up +700 by the end of his "playing" freshman season. AND have good IQs by then. I didnt wanna pass that up.

Absolutely, man. Full credit to you for taking a big risk and seeing it pay off. I just hope I never hear about it working again!