This is a hypothetical based on three current players, their offensive and baserunning abilities make the depth chart clear but let's say those differences are negligible.

These three shortstops all have defensive ratings between 88 and 94 except each has a different area where he is clearly weaker:

One has a Range of 81
One has a Glove of 83
One has an Arm Strength of 83

Who is your starter?

None lol. I want 85 + in each. Unless if one can hit for .850 + then I MIGHT sacrifice for those ratings

Posted by friarboy on 7/31/2020 5:32:00 PM (view original):
This is a hypothetical based on three current players, their offensive and baserunning abilities make the depth chart clear but let's say those differences are negligible.

These three shortstops all have defensive ratings between 88 and 94 except each has a different area where he is clearly weaker:

One has a Range of 81
One has a Glove of 83
One has an Arm Strength of 83

Who is your starter?

Mostly with Brian on this one, but if I have to choose I am going with the "One has a Range of 81". His range is above the recommended range for a SS. If his three other ratings are between 88 and 94, he is an MLB SS. He will miss out on double digit (+) plays that really help a pitching staff, but I don't think he cost you as many runs as the other guys depending on other guys other ratings.

If you post the three guys though, I can give a better opinion.

If one of the guys is above 90 on everything, he might be the better guy.

I would go with the 83 arm strength guy, personally. The difference in terms of +/- plays between 81 and 88+ range is more important to me than the difference between 83 and 88+ arm strength. I wouldn't play a guy with 81 range at SS unless he could really hit and I didn't have a better option.

Same here, if all else is more or less equal then glove first and range second. I have used a guy with 80 range before and all that happened was that he got no plus plays. But he was super solid at everything else.

Probably the low glove, although I think it matters very little. The reason I say that is:
1) There is a school of thought that says that (+/-) plays are not the only manifestation of range, that sometimes a player does not get to a ball and it doesn't show up as a (-) play. I don't believe this, but I'm not completely confident about that.
2) I feel confident that the only impact of glove on fielding performance is on errors.
3) I feel confident that the impact of each point of range on (+/-) plays is about the same as the impact of each point of glove on errors.

So, if I'm wrong and there is a hidden benefit of range (or AS) without a statistic being credited, then those attributes would be more important than glove. Also note that throwing errors are more damaging than drop errors (more extra bases yielded), so I'd sacrifice glove before AA.

I generally will accept the lower range if the other three ratings are solid. But the bat will also have a huge impact on my decision. I value offense over defense.

Glad we have a consensus here

Yeah. It's crazy that many successful owners have slightly different team building philosophies. I prefer to have a SS that overplays SS and a SS type of player that plays 2b. It really helps the pitching staff to have a defensively league average SS playing 2b. However, the game just doesn't generate enough SS that can hit for me to always get what I want, so I have to deal what is available.

Not to bring up a different subject, but I think this game still generates players as if it is the year 2000 as opposed to the year 2020 where we have many SS in the MLB that hit well (i.e. Seager, Lindor, Báez, Semien, Bogaerts, Tatis, Torres, Polanco, Correra, Dejong, Story, etc.).

If those players existed in this game they’d have 95+ overalls - prime Alex Rodriguez would have been over 100 - and their salary demands would be through the roof.

I've got this guy, who is a monster with the bat and has nearly two years of development left, so he could wind up as a legitimate (85+ in all fielding ratings) SS: Player Profile: Quentin Hefner - Hardball Dynasty Baseball | WhatIfSports

That said, I don't think it's so much that good-hitting shortstops aren't generated as it is that everyone prefers an overfielding SS and moves the big bat who can just kinda handle short to 3B, whereas in MLB, especially with the recent prevalence of shifting and analytics-based defensive positioning, individual defensive brilliance at shortstop is becoming less and less important.

I'd agree with that. To follow up on what I said last night, I think this game would actually take real life guys like Seager, Semien, Tatis, Story, and estimate their fielding ratings in the high 70s/ low 80s. So they'd be like 3Bs overplaying at SS like you said, except this game would hurt their fielding stats.

To continue the idea a little bit, the game almost never generates naturally excellent 3B. All my 3Bs are failed SS unless they just can't hit at all... and then sometimes I use them anyway. Open up draft prospects and one of the first things I usually do is see if there are any "natural" 3B worth drafting: almost never, and I set the 3B position target to 0. I haven't drafted a "natural" 3B in about my last 30 drafts.

The game generates 3Bs who are LFs with stronger arms who can hit for power not average... like back in the 70s or something.

From a shift perspective, it is old fashioned as well -- they only do things like moving the infield in, guarding the corners, DP depth, outfield in or out, etc.

I have heard two stories about HBD. Some owners say that a high range SS can make up for a low range 3b or a high ranged 1b can make up for a low ranged 2b, etc. Other owners have said that each position player stays in their lane and offers no overlap coverage. Which one is accurate? My guess would be that the position players stay in their lane (i.e. the the 98 range CF doesn't move into to RF to make the play when the C/DH that you have out there can't make the play).

Posted by tlowster on 8/8/2020 3:55:00 PM (view original):
Yeah. It's crazy that many successful owners have slightly different team building philosophies. I prefer to have a SS that overplays SS and a SS type of player that plays 2b. It really helps the pitching staff to have a defensively league average SS playing 2b. However, the game just doesn't generate enough SS that can hit for me to always get what I want, so I have to deal what is available.

Not to bring up a different subject, but I think this game still generates players as if it is the year 2000 as opposed to the year 2020 where we have many SS in the MLB that hit well (i.e. Seager, Lindor, Báez, Semien, Bogaerts, Tatis, Torres, Polanco, Correra, Dejong, Story, etc.).

This guy was just today the first pick in the Capra draft. My $20M COL projections had him as a Gold Glove, .290/.340/.490 type player; almost exactly Francisco Lindor. Looking at his current ratings I think it's more likely he ends up as a better than average SS but not quite a Gold Glove (he'll have average-y glove and AA with high range and AS) but slightly more power (I now project .290/.350/.520).

In any case he's the first approximation of a Gold Glove/Silver Slugger SS I've seen in a long time, maybe ever.

Posted by dedelman on 8/12/2020 4:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tlowster on 8/8/2020 3:55:00 PM (view original):
Yeah. It's crazy that many successful owners have slightly different team building philosophies. I prefer to have a SS that overplays SS and a SS type of player that plays 2b. It really helps the pitching staff to have a defensively league average SS playing 2b. However, the game just doesn't generate enough SS that can hit for me to always get what I want, so I have to deal what is available.

Not to bring up a different subject, but I think this game still generates players as if it is the year 2000 as opposed to the year 2020 where we have many SS in the MLB that hit well (i.e. Seager, Lindor, Báez, Semien, Bogaerts, Tatis, Torres, Polanco, Correra, Dejong, Story, etc.).

This guy was just today the first pick in the Capra draft. My $20M COL projections had him as a Gold Glove, .290/.340/.490 type player; almost exactly Francisco Lindor. Looking at his current ratings I think it's more likely he ends up as a better than average SS but not quite a Gold Glove (he'll have average-y glove and AA with high range and AS) but slightly more power (I now project .290/.350/.520).

In any case he's the first approximation of a Gold Glove/Silver Slugger SS I've seen in a long time, maybe ever.

I guess we gotta be super excited and a little bit jealous of whomever got him. These type of guys are extremely rare. I guess now the question is if the player is played at SS, 2b or 3b.

Best SS I have seen is This guy in Weaver. i kind of wish he was retired or a free agent so everyone could see his ratings in his prime, but the seven ML Gold Glove awards at SS and one at 3b should tell you he had elite defense at the SS. He also won 2 Season MVP Awards. He had 95+ power and 95+ batting eye as a switch hitter.