I have a few Low D1 Fastbreak teams. Playing around with attempting to build them a couple diff ways to see what happens or what I like more.

But when defending against the FB, what are most coaches doing? +/- DT Guards etc

i don't really do anything different defending against the FB in terms of +/- or double teams. the only difference is the pace is slightly higher, a little more fatigue all around, and sometimes that impacts your approach and stuff. playing a more + or more -, doesn't seem to have much impact on like, allowing more breaks, or creating more turnovers, outside of the way that those things work with any other offense. so nothing special there really.

fastbreak is a lot different than other offenses mostly because it allows scorers to be more effective off ath, spd, bh, and less tied to lp/per. so that kind impacts who on the other team might be scoring, and when you assess how dangerous a scorer is, that should affect your thinking some, too, i suppose. like what might look like a 2 main scorer situation in some other offense, might not be that in fb. but this usually is clear to see in the stats, how your opponent is using them. how you react to who your opponent is using, doesn't change much. but sometimes you can't really rely on history, like early in the season, or in the NT when the guy has a much different regular season lineup. so projections wise, there's some differences.

this is all around the margin stuff though. outside of being aware of the higher pace, you really don't need to treat your fb opponents any differently. fb can draw a bit more fouls too, but still, this is around-the-margin stuff.

I love fastbreak because it takes the most holistic gameplanning against it to be effective. Zone with the right game-planning is what always gives me the biggest problems. 3-2 when a team relies for on perimeter, 2-3 when they're more of an inside and FT team. Then it's about the difference in speed and bench for tempo. Man works well against the perimeter versions if the defense has the speed.

Side note, the natural tendency for FB by the system is to put most of the distro between SG,SF, and PF with the PG as a passer and C as a glass cleaner. I haven't played around much with that, I distro based on their ability, but in exhibitions I run 0 for everyone and over the years that's how it shakes out.

Posted by gillispie on 3/4/2022 11:32:00 AM (view original):
i don't really do anything different defending against the FB in terms of +/- or double teams. the only difference is the pace is slightly higher, a little more fatigue all around, and sometimes that impacts your approach and stuff. playing a more + or more -, doesn't seem to have much impact on like, allowing more breaks, or creating more turnovers, outside of the way that those things work with any other offense. so nothing special there really.

fastbreak is a lot different than other offenses mostly because it allows scorers to be more effective off ath, spd, bh, and less tied to lp/per. so that kind impacts who on the other team might be scoring, and when you assess how dangerous a scorer is, that should affect your thinking some, too, i suppose. like what might look like a 2 main scorer situation in some other offense, might not be that in fb. but this usually is clear to see in the stats, how your opponent is using them. how you react to who your opponent is using, doesn't change much. but sometimes you can't really rely on history, like early in the season, or in the NT when the guy has a much different regular season lineup. so projections wise, there's some differences.

this is all around the margin stuff though. outside of being aware of the higher pace, you really don't need to treat your fb opponents any differently. fb can draw a bit more fouls too, but still, this is around-the-margin stuff.

I'm like this as well. I don't even hesitate going -5 against FB if the other team doesn't shoot 3s despite the idea that going heavy negative defensive positioning *supposedly* causes more fouling. I don't really buy it.

Posted by Benis on 3/4/2022 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 3/4/2022 11:32:00 AM (view original):
i don't really do anything different defending against the FB in terms of +/- or double teams. the only difference is the pace is slightly higher, a little more fatigue all around, and sometimes that impacts your approach and stuff. playing a more + or more -, doesn't seem to have much impact on like, allowing more breaks, or creating more turnovers, outside of the way that those things work with any other offense. so nothing special there really.

fastbreak is a lot different than other offenses mostly because it allows scorers to be more effective off ath, spd, bh, and less tied to lp/per. so that kind impacts who on the other team might be scoring, and when you assess how dangerous a scorer is, that should affect your thinking some, too, i suppose. like what might look like a 2 main scorer situation in some other offense, might not be that in fb. but this usually is clear to see in the stats, how your opponent is using them. how you react to who your opponent is using, doesn't change much. but sometimes you can't really rely on history, like early in the season, or in the NT when the guy has a much different regular season lineup. so projections wise, there's some differences.

this is all around the margin stuff though. outside of being aware of the higher pace, you really don't need to treat your fb opponents any differently. fb can draw a bit more fouls too, but still, this is around-the-margin stuff.

I'm like this as well. I don't even hesitate going -5 against FB if the other team doesn't shoot 3s despite the idea that going heavy negative defensive positioning *supposedly* causes more fouling. I don't really buy it.

i do a little bit, steer clear of heavy negatives when i myself am pressing, especially if i have depth concerns. but only as a big favorite in a game. the marginal fouls are pretty minimal, in anything from a 80/20 to 20/80 game, those fouls are generally a nearly negligible concern. its really only in the series of 6 as a favorite where i am concerned about what my worst foul trouble game looks like over the series, where i get hesitant. i still run the -s though, i just might be a -2 where i'd be a -3 in a 50/50 game. and part of that is being opp 3pta adverse too. amazing press teams have multiple slight reasons to cheat a little bit to the + side, but this usually adds up to at most like, moving up 1 number on the +/-. maybe a -3 instead of a -5 on borderline cases, i do do that too i suppose. but not in 50/50 games...

in general i am in total agreement with you, the vast majority of games, foul concerns are not a good reason to make an adjustment to your +/-. maybe you break ties over it, that sort of thing, play a -2 when on the fence between -2 and -3 (as press). i probably do that with normal press teams even, because its my style. but this is all very slight. i usually do not hesitate at all to run -5 press when it is clearly called for. and being vs fb would not impact my assessment - *maybe* against those very rare mfnmeyers style, 0 3pta, all foul-drawing teams.

Back when mnfmyers was the FB/PRESS king of Dickinson College (he still is there but he's team lose occasionally now), I felt like I had his number (meaning I won every now and then).

When in the zone, I have ZERO issue playing a 2-3 (-5) against those style (zero 3FGA) teams.

Against a balance press team, I don't really game plan any differently other than use slowdown more frequently.

Posted by gillispie on 3/4/2022 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 3/4/2022 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 3/4/2022 11:32:00 AM (view original):
i don't really do anything different defending against the FB in terms of +/- or double teams. the only difference is the pace is slightly higher, a little more fatigue all around, and sometimes that impacts your approach and stuff. playing a more + or more -, doesn't seem to have much impact on like, allowing more breaks, or creating more turnovers, outside of the way that those things work with any other offense. so nothing special there really.

fastbreak is a lot different than other offenses mostly because it allows scorers to be more effective off ath, spd, bh, and less tied to lp/per. so that kind impacts who on the other team might be scoring, and when you assess how dangerous a scorer is, that should affect your thinking some, too, i suppose. like what might look like a 2 main scorer situation in some other offense, might not be that in fb. but this usually is clear to see in the stats, how your opponent is using them. how you react to who your opponent is using, doesn't change much. but sometimes you can't really rely on history, like early in the season, or in the NT when the guy has a much different regular season lineup. so projections wise, there's some differences.

this is all around the margin stuff though. outside of being aware of the higher pace, you really don't need to treat your fb opponents any differently. fb can draw a bit more fouls too, but still, this is around-the-margin stuff.

I'm like this as well. I don't even hesitate going -5 against FB if the other team doesn't shoot 3s despite the idea that going heavy negative defensive positioning *supposedly* causes more fouling. I don't really buy it.

i do a little bit, steer clear of heavy negatives when i myself am pressing, especially if i have depth concerns. but only as a big favorite in a game. the marginal fouls are pretty minimal, in anything from a 80/20 to 20/80 game, those fouls are generally a nearly negligible concern. its really only in the series of 6 as a favorite where i am concerned about what my worst foul trouble game looks like over the series, where i get hesitant. i still run the -s though, i just might be a -2 where i'd be a -3 in a 50/50 game. and part of that is being opp 3pta adverse too. amazing press teams have multiple slight reasons to cheat a little bit to the + side, but this usually adds up to at most like, moving up 1 number on the +/-. maybe a -3 instead of a -5 on borderline cases, i do do that too i suppose. but not in 50/50 games...

in general i am in total agreement with you, the vast majority of games, foul concerns are not a good reason to make an adjustment to your +/-. maybe you break ties over it, that sort of thing, play a -2 when on the fence between -2 and -3 (as press). i probably do that with normal press teams even, because its my style. but this is all very slight. i usually do not hesitate at all to run -5 press when it is clearly called for. and being vs fb would not impact my assessment - *maybe* against those very rare mfnmeyers style, 0 3pta, all foul-drawing teams.

Yeah in general I definitely agree. Tempo has WAAAY more impact on fouling frequency than defensive positioning. I think people pay too much attention to the latter.

Very Helpful Thank You

Posted by Benis on 3/4/2022 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 3/4/2022 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 3/4/2022 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 3/4/2022 11:32:00 AM (view original):
i don't really do anything different defending against the FB in terms of +/- or double teams. the only difference is the pace is slightly higher, a little more fatigue all around, and sometimes that impacts your approach and stuff. playing a more + or more -, doesn't seem to have much impact on like, allowing more breaks, or creating more turnovers, outside of the way that those things work with any other offense. so nothing special there really.

fastbreak is a lot different than other offenses mostly because it allows scorers to be more effective off ath, spd, bh, and less tied to lp/per. so that kind impacts who on the other team might be scoring, and when you assess how dangerous a scorer is, that should affect your thinking some, too, i suppose. like what might look like a 2 main scorer situation in some other offense, might not be that in fb. but this usually is clear to see in the stats, how your opponent is using them. how you react to who your opponent is using, doesn't change much. but sometimes you can't really rely on history, like early in the season, or in the NT when the guy has a much different regular season lineup. so projections wise, there's some differences.

this is all around the margin stuff though. outside of being aware of the higher pace, you really don't need to treat your fb opponents any differently. fb can draw a bit more fouls too, but still, this is around-the-margin stuff.

I'm like this as well. I don't even hesitate going -5 against FB if the other team doesn't shoot 3s despite the idea that going heavy negative defensive positioning *supposedly* causes more fouling. I don't really buy it.

i do a little bit, steer clear of heavy negatives when i myself am pressing, especially if i have depth concerns. but only as a big favorite in a game. the marginal fouls are pretty minimal, in anything from a 80/20 to 20/80 game, those fouls are generally a nearly negligible concern. its really only in the series of 6 as a favorite where i am concerned about what my worst foul trouble game looks like over the series, where i get hesitant. i still run the -s though, i just might be a -2 where i'd be a -3 in a 50/50 game. and part of that is being opp 3pta adverse too. amazing press teams have multiple slight reasons to cheat a little bit to the + side, but this usually adds up to at most like, moving up 1 number on the +/-. maybe a -3 instead of a -5 on borderline cases, i do do that too i suppose. but not in 50/50 games...

in general i am in total agreement with you, the vast majority of games, foul concerns are not a good reason to make an adjustment to your +/-. maybe you break ties over it, that sort of thing, play a -2 when on the fence between -2 and -3 (as press). i probably do that with normal press teams even, because its my style. but this is all very slight. i usually do not hesitate at all to run -5 press when it is clearly called for. and being vs fb would not impact my assessment - *maybe* against those very rare mfnmeyers style, 0 3pta, all foul-drawing teams.

Yeah in general I definitely agree. Tempo has WAAAY more impact on fouling frequency than defensive positioning. I think people pay too much attention to the latter.

This is also because your teams are built well enough to hang in the game. And/Or win. That's not the case for everyone. And I think when teams are NOT strong enough to hang in the game, heavy - defenses can create issues. I also feel like generally, those are the coaches that are asking the questions. I'm not afraid of -5 either. But I am a solid coach with mostly solid teams. But if someone is trying to break through, and they have a team that may not be able to measure up athletically, I do feel like the heavy - can cause some unwanted issues

So how do I defend MFNmeyers? Lol