DH in both leagues: results so far... Topic

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml

The last year before the AL adopted the DH was 1972.

BA OBP SO per team per game
1972 .244 .311 5.57
2022 .241 .311 8.31


Reasons for why even some of my best friends on this site and nearly everyone who favors the DH says we need it:

"Who wants to have pitchers come up when you know they aren't going to get a hit?"

Reality:

So far, with both leagues having the DH:
We have FEWER hits per AB (batting average), THE EXACT SAME PERCENTAGE OF PLAYERS ON BASE (wasn't "Moneyball" and Sabermetrics supposed ot have revolutionize the game through an understanding of how important OBP was?), and MORE batters who don't even get the bat on the ball than when both leagues had pitchers bat DURING ONE OF THE GREATEST OFFENSIVE DROUGHT ERAS IN BASEBALL HISTORY. And even then, 1972, there were more hits per AB, more players on base per PA, and fewer useless or pointless, fruitless at-bats even including the pitchers of both leagues batting because even so fewer players struck out.

I think we need pitchers to be allowed to pinch-hit every at-bat for the DH or something, to get that BA back up 3 more points and to get fewer strikeouts in the game.
6/10/2022 6:15 PM
1972 was an extreme pitching season. Offensive numbers were woeful. Difficult to compare that to any recent seasons.
This seems like cherry picking...

The MLBPA will never surrender the DH roster positions, it's here to stay. I'm not a fan, but they don't care about that. They have enough revenue, my not spending money on MLB means zilch...
6/10/2022 6:21 PM
Posted by DoctorKz on 6/10/2022 6:21:00 PM (view original):
1972 was an extreme pitching season. Offensive numbers were woeful. Difficult to compare that to any recent seasons.
This seems like cherry picking...

The MLBPA will never surrender the DH roster positions, it's here to stay. I'm not a fan, but they don't care about that. They have enough revenue, my not spending money on MLB means zilch...
I didn't cherry pick DoctorKz, 1972 was the last year that pitchers batted in the AL before the DH which began in 1973. And indeed, it was precisely because the offense was so low that year that in panic the AL owners voted to go to the DH.

That low offense is exactly my point, and far from it being difficult to compare with any recent season, we see that THIS season, despite having DH in BOTH leagues, we have almost the same offensive results as in that very low offensive year which was the last time pitchers batted in BOTH leagues.

What is the point of the DH if there are the same number (actually 3 points lower in BA league-wide) of hits as when pitchers batted, and the exact same OBP? And MORE batters striking out today than when pitchers were 1/9 of all at-bats minus pinch-hitting?
6/11/2022 5:54 AM
To annoy guys like you and I.
6/11/2022 8:29 AM
too early in the season to say

way too early

let's get into the dog days

arf arf
6/11/2022 9:19 AM
Partly their (lack of) offensive output is due to facing great pitching. Perhaps the baseball itself has been deadened. They swing from the heels, even with two strikes, striking out at alarming rates. Everything evolves around Sportscenter highlights, is all about home runs and launch angles. Is just one of many reasons that I do not partake in viewing the current form of baseball...
6/11/2022 11:55 AM
Interesting post prof. Thanks for researching/sharing. My initial thought is the use of all the flame throwing relief pitchers rotating through the game might have an impact. Nowadays many SP’s go through the opponents line up twice, the manager calls “uncle” and the RP parade begins.
6/11/2022 11:11 PM
I don't mean to be so negative, Professor. The game is great, doesn't need changing. It doesn't need The Shift, time clocks, robotic umpires, hell it didn't need to shift to almost all night games. Big money is pimping all of pro sports, bastardizing them. I'm disgusted with it all...
6/12/2022 10:04 AM
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Sorry everyone to take so long to reply to comments here. Been trying to finish a book translation (from Italian to English) on time. It's done (only the editing for style remains), and so I have a breather at last.

DoctorKz, no offense taken and I agree entiriely with your assessment of the game when done right. You might enjoy a book I am re-reading now, Whitey Herzog's "You're Missin' a Great Game!".

redwingscup, I do think that the current way relievers are used is a big part of the shift to "three true outcomes" version of the game. I think some rule is needed, though some of it might be physical plant: lower the mound a little, but push fences back to make more contact possible and fewer home runs. Or move home plate and the diamond back if it is too costly and time-consuming to move fences.

The DH was created to deal with the culmination of a long decade (1962 when the mound was raised to 1972) in which offense was scarce and pitching dominated, and runs were few. That coincided, but may not have been a cause, of declining interest in baseball - personally, I think the 1960s political atmosphere had more to do with it, as baseball symbolizes more or a Durkheimian than a Marxist if I can wear my sociologist hat for a moment, vision of America. That is, it symbolizes America when we all feel that we belong. This in fact is a part of why there was eventually pressure to desegregate the game. Lou Gehrig said "Baseball is our national pastime, and there is no room in it for discrimination of any kind." Though to be sure, Marxists, who protested at games against segregation, played some role in the actual pressure to end segregation. But I digress. The point is, baseball doesn't do well when conflict it involved, or controversy (1994 strike, 1981 strike, Pete Rose, steroids, etc.). It is what America looks to see a version of itself that it can like.

So I think an era when conflict (Civil Rights, antiwar, in Vietnam, riots in cities, Nixon and Watergate, women's liberation, etc.), was bound to not be a good time for baseball, and some of the long-term effect of TV and other things took their toll. I understand the owners thinking they needed more excitement in the game, but the 1980s, with all that base-stealing did at least as good a job of that.

The DH of course HAS added offense, the AL has consistently had higher offensive stats than the NL ever since. But in recent years, with the impact of sabermetrics, the use of more relievers and the Taylorist (to again wear my sociologist hat) use of scientific management principles (how to maximize every movement for output - velocity for pitchers, exit velocity for batters, and so on), the discovery that statistically pitchers weaken in late innings (as if we didn't know that) and their replacement with four or five fire-ballers after the fifth, an average batter is now at least as likely to strike out as a pitcher ever was in the past.

Nor, now, as we see, are league batting averages any higher than in the pre-1973, pre-DH era, as the stats quoted in my initial post show. bagchucker is right, of course, that it is still a relatively small sample size, though it is league-wide, so those numbers represent all batters in both leagues, which is not a small number either. But it is still relatively early. So it may change.

There is news today: for the first time the US Justice Department has filed a suit, based on the case of the Staten Island Yankees, one of the A-level teams eliminated by MLB after 2020, calling for the US Supreme Court to reduce baseball's antitrust exemption.

I think it is time, though I would have opposed it even in the recent past: that Durkheim thing (he was concerned that modern society find ways to keep everyone feelign like they belong, what he called "social solidarity", given the nature of the complex modern division of labor to lead people to have less in common than in the past, and with the decline of religion as a glue holding society's members together). But I think it is a good time. And the first reduction of that antitrust exemption - baseball is the ONLY industry exempt, precisely because it was seen by the Court as a crucial element of American culture, and NOT just an industry - should be a ruling that major league teams can no longer own minor league teams. The end of the "farm system." Want a minor league player, pay for it to the local minors' team. This would then move to the possibility at least of other major leagues or other leagues at least, also being able to compete to get those players. I don't love economic competition, as you all know of me, but in this case the very possibility of it, either means some league will say "let' s do it differently than MLB, to have our own identity, let's let fans know that they can see the game as it was once played in our parks and games, no DH, nice ballparks that are scenic but no blasting music, or exploding score boards and fences just far enough away that players have to hit the ball and run around the bases, which would then lead to changes in coaching and training and player formation. Or maybe MLB itself would change to avoid such competition.

6/16/2022 6:49 AM
DH in both leagues: results so far... Topic

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