Hi All,

Apologies if this has been asked and answered, but will a guy wit twice the work ethic of someone else convert about twice as many improvements over the course of a season?

I'm trying to decide who to give the redshirt - the guy with twice the WE, who has more to go to max out, vs the guy with half the work ethic, but less far to the end game.

Thanks in advance!

It’s not exactly proportional (ie someone with twice the work ethic will develop twice as fast), but WE is very important to how fast a player will develop. As to your question, it’d be helpful to know the players WE. I say that because players with very low WE (let’s say less than 30), won’t develop enough on a RS to offset the summer loss. So if it’s 20 and 40, I’d pick the 40 and start the 20 if I though he was a talent. If it’s 40 v 80, it’s kind of what you want. Do you want the 80 to be maxed out very early, or do you want two players with a closer development growth path? That’s always more of a team specific roster construction question than one that can be answered in a vacuum.

I think you should redshirt who will be the better player in their 5th year. If it is close (and they are both good) then RS the guy with lower WE.

cubcub's a better coach than I am, so take this with a grain of salt; but if everything else is equal I prefer to redshirt the guy with higher WE, so the redshirt year isn't a waste.

That said, I can't remember the last time I went into a season with more than one freshman who would take a redshirt without a major WE loss.

Posted by texashick on 7/27/2022 9:55:00 AM (view original):
It’s not exactly proportional (ie someone with twice the work ethic will develop twice as fast), but WE is very important to how fast a player will develop. As to your question, it’d be helpful to know the players WE. I say that because players with very low WE (let’s say less than 30), won’t develop enough on a RS to offset the summer loss. So if it’s 20 and 40, I’d pick the 40 and start the 20 if I though he was a talent. If it’s 40 v 80, it’s kind of what you want. Do you want the 80 to be maxed out very early, or do you want two players with a closer development growth path? That’s always more of a team specific roster construction question than one that can be answered in a vacuum.

"I say that because players with very low WE (let’s say less than 30), won’t develop enough on a RS to offset the summer loss."
Can someone help me to better understand the "summer loss?"
Thank you for clarifying,
JRNY

between seasons each player goes through rating changes as part of the off-season development.

If the player has room between his current ratings and his maximum potential, generally the higher the WE, the more points a player will gain in the off-season.

A player with a high WE could improve 20-30 points or more in one off-season. You often will see a larger improvement just before senior season. Sometime 8-10 points in a single category.
Compare that to a player with a low WE. Even players with 200 points of total growth available, a low WE may result in a loss of net points during the off-season. Quite a few people use the WE of 25-30 as a border line between improving in the off-season and possibly losing points.

Lots of wisdom here, thanks!

Follow up question: does a redshirted player still need study hall minutes to meet a minimum GPA?

Posted by bugs318 on 7/29/2022 10:49:00 PM (view original):
Lots of wisdom here, thanks!

Follow up question: does a redshirted player still need study hall minutes to meet a minimum GPA?

I consistently put my redshirt players at 0 study hall. Have yet to have one not pass. And the risk is relatively minor, because they will always start next season eligible. If you get a really bad midterm report, then maybe I’d throw a couple minutes at them but otherwise really no need.

I go the other way on this question. You obviously don’t have to worry about them missing games their redshirt season; but if they just barely scrape by that year, you’ll be rolling the dice with them in the next season when they’re actually playing, and possibly the soph season as well. Get them up over 3.0, and you can 0 them out and likely never think about it again. Front loading SH minutes into a player’s first season reduces the likelihood that you’ll ever even need to look at it again after that season, in my experience, whether it’s a redshirt, or a normal player.

Here’s an example of why I (usually) do it the way I do it. This player was barely eligible out of HS, but had a lot of good potential, and will be a good upperclassman. So I skimped a little more than normal in his redshirt season, and only got him to like 2.7 or something, because of all that potential (I normally would have used 10-12 SH minutes, his HS GPA was something like 2.3 or 2.4 I think, wish there was a way to say for sure, but I’m confident that’s where it was, because I knew I was gambling; I only used 7-8 for him in his redshirt season).

Anyway, he did get in trouble in his midterms this year, despite having 5-6 study hall minutes this season. So I had to bump him. Now he’s still sitting below the “safe zone” at 2.8 heading into his soph season, so I’ll still need to either invest some minutes next season, or watch him (I’ll likely just watch him). If I’d gone heavier, like normal, from the start, I’m confident it wouldn’t be a concern anymore.

i am generally a pretty aggressive study haller (meaning i do very little), but i think for redshirt freshman there is actually the best logic of all cases for the 'get it out of the way early' approach. the reason being you have that 2nd freshman season, 2nd year freshman do grades like 1st year freshman, except i think its now based on college GPA like it would be for a soph. but i mean, the curve of dumbness if you will, which is worst for freshman and gets much better over time, the redshirt freshman have that freshman curve twice. its just the second time is based on college GPA.

overall on this GPA stuff, you really only have two reasonable approaches, and as long as you are doing one of the two, its fine. either put a moderate amount into freshman and then 0 upperclassmen, 'the safe way', or cut it close the whole way (with occasionally upperclassmen SH for exceptionally dumb players, in the 'safe way'). the second approach is probably optimal, strictly speaking, but the penalty for missing a player can be quite severe, and there's nothing wrong with contributing a few freshman minutes towards your own peace of mind later. especially if you don't check your teams every game cycle. so its really like, there are two reasonable paths and as long as you take one, you are straight, just try not to be over-doing the freshman study hall like giving a 3.5 freshman 10 minutes and that sort of thing.

but anyway, with that backdrop - redshirt freshman favor 'the safe way' more than any other player, as best i can tell. its true their failing out matters extremely little, and that i mostly 0 them all like i do any other player. but you also get more return on those SH minutes than you would for any other player.

Posted by oldwarrior on 7/29/2022 6:53:00 PM (view original):
between seasons each player goes through rating changes as part of the off-season development.

If the player has room between his current ratings and his maximum potential, generally the higher the WE, the more points a player will gain in the off-season.

A player with a high WE could improve 20-30 points or more in one off-season. You often will see a larger improvement just before senior season. Sometime 8-10 points in a single category.
Compare that to a player with a low WE. Even players with 200 points of total growth available, a low WE may result in a loss of net points during the off-season. Quite a few people use the WE of 25-30 as a border line between improving in the off-season and possibly losing points.

Thanks oldwarrior. This is good stuff!!
Had no idea,...