another one of these questions, all things are equal, except one is a 90 def / 60 SB vs the other a 60 def / 90 sb.....

which one would you start at center?

I thought defense was always more important than shot blocking, because half the game is defense and shot blocking only comes into play when there is a shot attempt.

What defense are you playing? If you're playing m2m, the 90 DE/60 SB guy, and I'd probably start him in a press too. In a zone, it would depend on what the other DE ratings of the players around him are. If they are all decent - say 50s or higher - than probably the high SB C, but if 1 or both are in the 40s or below, I'd probably go with the high DE guy.

Quote: Originally Posted By acn24 on 12/22/2009What defense are you playing? If you're playing m2m, the 90 DE/60 SB guy, and I'd probably start him in a press too. In a zone, it would depend on what the other DE ratings of the players around him are. If they are all decent - say 50s or higher - than probably the high SB C, but if 1 or both are in the 40s or below, I'd probably go with the high DE guy

top of the line d1 team, with 800 level players on his team, playing fcp

I think I'd go with 90 Def in man, 90 SB in zone and press. My theory re: press is that most of the trap attempts occur on the perimeter. If the off player "splits" the trap, I think SB becomes more important (to alter the shot) than Def. I'm basing this on RL basketball, and I don't really know how WIS programs it.

This is a great example of how WIS needs to create a user manual to help guide such decisions. We really have NO clue how HD is programmed, so it's simply a guess. We can try to use RL basketball reasoning, but that is correct on no more than an arbitrary basis. If HD offered the actual answer to this question, something like, "when playing zone, SB is more important than Def for the C," it would make for more informed/satisfied customers. Mind you, this wouldn't allow anyone to "break the HD code", any more than now, but it would allow users to approach the game in an informed manner. When one stops to think about it, it's actually incredible that there is so very LITTLE that actually tells us coaches how to play HD, and how it works in relation to RL (or not). Officially, I think there is only the basic system guide, which gives an extremely basic overview of the systems, and an extremely limited set of hints as to what ratings are important for each system. It's simply incredible, to me at least. There is also Z's effort, which is quite a document, but ultimately, it's never been vetted by WIS. They simply said, "thanks for doing our job, Z" and put it out there as gospel. I'm sure there are many statements that are misleading (Z would surely agree) in it, but it's simply an excellent veteran's best guess as to how HD works.

js - I agree with most everything you said, you said it very well, since seble is probably pretty sick of me writing tickets up, you really should submit your thought on a user's manual on a ticket.

as a followup Z - would anyone do it differently, if the decision were pf instead of center???

Tough call with all else being equal.

If the kid has little to no speed I would likely take the def because I would assume that he isn't getting back on d as often, especially at high level d1 and with me playing uptempo almost all the time.

If the kid was fast enough and so on I would likely decide based on the rest of my team, IE if I needed a sb then sb would win.

As for the different D's if I were in a zone sb would win every time.

Its a very interesting question OR and I have to admit, I largely ignore SB when recruiting. However, defense is a very critical recruiting rating for all of my positions.

I decideded to go back to my Archives at Wake Forest in Knight to look at some stats and compare them to my ending ratings for those players (I keep a snapshot of my final ratings each season).

Here are some interesting takeaways:

-- At least in my experience, it is fairly rare to find a good defensive big man (PF and C, only) that is bad at SB. At least, I never recruited any.

-- The best SBer in the history of WFU was before my time in season 1-4 and only average 1 block per game. He also happened to have the most Steals per game for a big man 1.4 per game. I don't have the final ratings for him since he was before my time.

-- The best SB of my players, McKosky, and #2 all time also average 1 blk per game. He also had .9 steals per game. It looks like he started around 78 in SB rating and ended at 97 after his Sr year. He started in Def around 72 and ended at 98 (so must have been high potential).

-- The worst two SBing big men that I recruited ended with ratings of 73 and 71 in SB. Surprisingly, Ferrin ended 6th all time in blocks with an average of .8 per game. Lee ended with .5 blocks per game. They both ended with Def ratings north of 97 or better and .8 steals per game.

-- The two worst defending big men that I recruited were Guillory and Hegarty, who ended at 72 and 70 in Def rating. They both ended with very high SB ratings of 94 and 98, respectively. Guillory averaged .6 steals and .7 blocks per game, while Hegarty averaged .9 steals and 1.0 blocks per game.

My conclusions are as follows (obviously a small sample but...):

-- If you get SB north of 70 by the end of the career, there is not a lot of difference between results if the rating is 70 or 98.

-- Probably the most important element of Defense is not included in stats that are tracked -- how did their opponent shoot against them. I would guess that opponents shot worse against my defenders that were above 95 in Def rating and I think that has more impact on game outcome than steals or blocks. Too bad we can't track that.

-- I think steals are more valuable than blocks because with a steal you get the ball, with a block you get the ball some of the time and the opponent rebounds it some of the time.

-- I don't think any of this will change the way I recruit focused on Def, without much thought toward SBing.

Anyone who thinks SB matters in the press should reevaluate their thinking.

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The good news is it is a very fast athletic group of big men. If you run the press with this group they probably will do better than their defense implies.

It does look like you will struggle with rebounding, which means you will be to play -2 all the time just to try to catchup in rebounding. So you won't have much flexibility in gameplanning.

I think it would make sense to dump Kim if you had the recruiting cash to score a more classic big man.

Quote: Originally posted by tannermcc on 12/22/2009Anyone who thinks SB matters in the press should reevaluate their thinking.

maybe you should re-evaluate your thinking :O

that said, i really don't value sb much at all in the press. i actually ignored it completely, like dur, for half my career. i've since seen the error in my ways, but i would take the 90 def/60 sb guy without hesitation.

Quote: Originally posted by oldresorter on 12/22/2009another one of these questions, all things are equal, except one is a 90 def / 60 SB vs the other a 60 def / 90 sb.....which one would you start at center?

It's a great question, one I've recently thought about. Lately, I've been seeing low rating defensive guys with high shot blocking skills shut down the other center. Shot blocking also helps with altering shots.

I would consider cutting Kim due to his lack of Ath, Spd and BH.