Is it worth it with a freshman who isn't going to get time but could get some minutes later in his career? What about in DIII?

I stopped RS after potential came into play because guys were maxing out after a couple of seasons anyway. So using it to get the most out of a guy isn't useful anymore. However, if you have 3 scholarships (for example) and have 2 needs to fill and use the other on the best athlete/player, then maybe he might be a good guy to RS. You can also use it to balance out, or unbalance classes if you want to do that. I am in DII by the way. Haven't been in DIII for awhile now.

A few more reasons to use the RS.

1.) Easier to manage minutes for 11 players than 12.
2.) Many times, getting the player 5min in his Fr. year is wasting talent on the floor. Let him sit if he can't contribute.
3.) Even if potential flat lines, a higher IQ is always better when the player is needed to play.
4.) If you don't need him now, RS him, just in case you screw up recruiting later.

In essence ALWAYS RS a player if you're current situation allows for it and you don't need to fix mistakes in class balancing.

I have not used a redshirt on anyone sense potential has been rolled out. Won a nat title and lost in the final four/champ game in about 7-10 seasons played with potential. I think redshirts are useless now. If you need to manage minutes toss it on him and take it off at the end of the year. I did it the last 2 seasons to FR that I promised mins to (my pg had 30 min/start last year I did it to make him no transfer)

Redshirts aren't useless now, but with players maxing out quicker, I don't think they are AS important. At the very least, you get an extra season of IQ.

Which have been proven that they mean next to nothing. Someone got a cheating warning because they won with F IQs. Someone also won the national title with nobody over C+ in the sets they ran in div III. I'd much rather not risk someone maxing out sooner then I thought then have a scrub who I could have replaced sit there maxed out for the last 2 seasons of his career just so I can have him be maxed out sometime in his JR season rather then his SR season IQ wise. Just isn't worth the risk anymore, and the reward simply isn't there, IMO. Probably just me though, but I am a good enough recruiter that I can replace anyone so I don't need to hold anyone back.

Quote: Originally posted by furry_nipps on 12/29/2009I have not used a redshirt on anyone sense potential has been rolled out. Won a nat title and lost in the final four/champ game in about 7-10 seasons played with potential. I think redshirts are useless now. If you need to manage minutes toss it on him and take it off at the end of the year. I did it the last 2 seasons to FR that I promised mins to (my pg had 30 min/start last year I did it to make him no transfer)

Your example of gaming the system isn't what I was referring to when I was saying manage minutes. Unlike you, not everyone is concerned about how they can exploit a flaw to maximize their personal outcome. Quite frankly, it's pretty disgusting that you do it and I do believe that many of the vets wouldn't even consider trying crap like that.

My point about managing minutes meant that it was easier to get quality players more minutes or maintain them over their expectations without the RS player getting their 2-4 mpg.

Pathetic. Just when it seemed like you might have turned a corner in this game.

I think redshirting depends alot on the players Work Ethic. In the old days it was advantagous to redshirt a guy with a high WE and watch 5 years of growth.

In the days of potential a lower WE player, with a lot of upside, may not max out until his 4-5th season. If he's a decent player with a lot of upside I don't see any reason not to redshirt the guy. Gives him an extra season to possibly reach his potential. In D2 I redshirt almost every season but I don't think I've redshirted a guy with a WE over 40.

I recruited a guy with a 13 WE and after 4 seasons he still has a big upside in a couple categories.

I always try to redshirt a player (both of my current teams are at DIII). While perhaps not quite as important as in the pre-potential era, I think it still makes a big difference.

You're essentially trading in a season when a player is least "talented" (his freshman year, with the lowest ratings of his career and lowest IQ) for an extra season when he's most talented (following his "natural" senior year, when he has the highest ratings of his career and highest IQ).

To me, it always makes sense to make that trade (unless ultra-low WE means he's actually regressing).

Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 12/29/2009

Quote: Originally posted by furry_nipps on 12/29/2009 I have not used a redshirt on anyone sense potential has been rolled out. Won a nat title and lost in the final four/champ game in about 7-10 seasons played with potential. I think redshirts are useless now. If you need to manage minutes toss it on him and take it off at the end of the year. I did it the last 2 seasons to FR that I promised mins to (my pg had 30 min/start last year I did it to make him no transfer)

Your example of gaming the system isn't what I was referring to when I was saying manage minutes. Unlike you, not everyone is concerned about how they can exploit a flaw to maximize their personal outcome. Quite frankly, it's pretty disgusting that you do it and I do believe that many of the vets wouldn't even consider trying crap like that.

My point about managing minutes meant that it was easier to get quality players more minutes or maintain them over their expectations without the RS player getting their 2-4 mpg.

Pathetic. Just when it seemed like you might have turned a corner in this game

So furry'd rather waste a full year of a player giving him 0 pt? Wow... I hope this gets corrected.

Quote: Originally posted by mlatsko1 on 12/29/2009

Quote: Originally posted by furry_nipps on 12/29/2009I have not used a redshirt on anyone sense potential has been rolled out. Won a nat title and lost in the final four/champ game in about 7-10 seasons played with potential. I think redshirts are useless now. If you need to manage minutes toss it on him and take it off at the end of the year. I did it the last 2 seasons to FR that I promised mins to (my pg had 30 min/start last year I did it to make him no transfer)

Your example of gaming the system isn't what I was referring to when I was saying manage minutes. Unlike you, not everyone is concerned about how they can exploit a flaw to maximize their personal outcome. Quite frankly, it's pretty disgusting that you do it and I do believe that many of the vets wouldn't even consider trying crap like that.

My point about managing minutes meant that it was easier to get quality players more minutes or maintain them over their expectations without the RS player getting their 2-4 mpg.

Pathetic. Just when it seemed like you might have turned a corner in this game.

You must have missed the thread of the vets saying "wow, I didn't know you could do that. I got to try it."


You'd be pretty surprised at who site mailed me actually giving me the idea to do it. Its a good stratagy to use. I knew I wasn't going to redshirt him, but that I didn't need to play. Why not use the free recruiting value of a promise start/30 min promise when you know you won't need to live up to it? It is sort of the same thing with the ineligbles. If you think that is bad you should see all the other flaws/loop holes that I and many other coaches use to better our teams

Quote: Originally Posted By bluespruce on 12/29/2009
I always try to redshirt a player (both of my current teams are at DIII). While perhaps not quite as important as in the pre-potential era, I think it still makes a big difference.

You're essentially trading in a season when a player is least "talented" (his freshman year, with the lowest ratings of his career and lowest IQ) for an extra season when he's most talented (following his "natural" senior year, when he has the highest ratings of his career and highest IQ).

To me, it always makes sense to make that trade (unless ultra-low WE means he's actually regressing).

That makes sense, I haven't redshirted a player in a long time, mainly because I would rather have that ship back after 4 years then a player that won't be improving but I can see that point, especially at the lower levels.

Nice to hear from ya blue!

mlatsko, I really agree with your 4th point above. In addition to maybe screwing up in recruiting, you may find that some years just don't have a high number of guys in a certain position. So it's nice to have a guy in reserve. For that reason I tend to RS SF's more because I don't mind playing them in multiple spots.

That being said, I still don't RS automatically like I used to.

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You have got to be kidding me.