Udate for the not hitting SP4/5 Topic

moos3p
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This is to update the pitching situation for my Witchita team. My starting rotation is:
SP1 and RP1 and/or RP2
SP2 and RP1 and/or RP2
SP4/SP5/RP3
SP3 and RP1 and/or RP2
SP5/SP4/RP3
I also have a closer, and use LRA(RP4), and 2 LRB(RP4/RP5).

28 games in (20-8), I am still playing with settings and roles to get exactly what I want. However, I am having no fatigue problems. My bullpen is almost always at 100%. Most of the time, my 4/5 pitcher is being pulled for a PH in 3rd inning, however, since the offense is somewhat explosive, my second pitcher tends to bat at least once before being pulled.

If anyone has any suggestions and/or comments, please post. I still am not sure of how to set up my starters and relief. My closer has gotten few chances, so I am thinking of using him as my RP1, as he is my number 5 rated pitcher.
4/21/2010 8:07 PM
moos3p
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I also have the no. 2 scoring offense, behind a team out of the scoring capitol of Colorado. Not necessarily because I don't bat the pitcher in 2 out of every 5 games, but its certainly not hurting any. And it does seem that I have scored more on average doing this.
4/21/2010 8:13 PM
schuyler101
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real interesting strategy, let us know how it progresses further into the season...i'm curious how you make it work with pinch hitting settings, pull settings, etc...
4/22/2010 10:34 PM
kahrtmen
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I would love to figure out a good way to do this, mainly for the pinch hitting possibilities. What are the DUR/STA combos for your staff? Are you tandeming your SP1/RP1, or just letting them have full starts?

How many plate appearances do your pitchers have so far this season? I always lead my league in pinch hitting at-bats (~250 per season), but my starter almost always gets at least 2 at-bats, if not three, every game. Even with the 250 pinch hit at-bats, my pitchers still had 450 plate appearances on the season. I wonder how low that could go with a well-orchestrated rotation.
4/23/2010 12:39 AM
kahrtmen
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I just took a look, and your pitchers are grabbing about 6.9% of your plate appearances. I was at 7.1% last season, without a tandem but with aggressive pinch hitting settings (5). I wonder how low that can go with the right settings.
4/23/2010 12:48 AM
moos3p
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4/23/2010 5:24 AM
zbrent716
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Quote: Originally posted by kahrtmen on 4/23/2010I just took a look, and your pitchers are grabbing about 6.9% of your plate appearances. I was at 7.1% last season, without a tandem but with aggressive pinch hitting settings (5). I wonder how low that can go with the right settings.

For the sake of comparison, running a 2-man rotation and limiting the PA of the SP completely (13 PA each all season in 81 starts each) led to pitchers (mostly my top RP) getting a total of 208 PA out of 6041 PA, or 3.4%. Unless you had a number of *very* high stamina/durability RP such that you could run a 9 or 10 man staff to have the extra PH, I think it'd be very very tough to get below 3%.
4/23/2010 2:08 PM
kahrtmen
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Very interesting. Which team/season was this? I'd love to check out the stats.

Did your two-man rotation have incredibly high DUR?

My staff usually has enough STA/DUR that I can get by with 11 pitchers, leaving me 6 guys to pinch hit every game. That seems like it would be enough bench guys to be able to pinch hit every time a pitcher came up. The question is would that be enough pitchers, since many of the outings would be cut short by a PH appearance. I suspect DUR is the key for a strategy like this, and my staff is stronger in STA (8 pitchers at 57 or above) than DUR (17, 21, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 30 for those 8 high-STA pitchers). Still, getting down to 3% sounds fantastic. I assume you stopped using this strategy at some point?
4/23/2010 2:50 PM
zbrent716
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Quote: Originally posted by kahrtmen on 4/23/2010Very interesting. Which team/season was this? I'd love to check out the stats.

Did your two-man rotation have incredibly high DUR?

My staff usually has enough STA/DUR that I can get by with 11 pitchers, leaving me 6 guys to pinch hit every game. That seems like it would be enough bench guys to be able to pinch hit every time a pitcher came up. The question is would that be enough pitchers, since many of the outings would be cut short by a PH appearance. I suspect DUR is the key for a strategy like this, and my staff is stronger in STA (8 pitchers at 57 or above) than DUR (17, 21, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 30 for those 8 high-STA pitchers). Still, getting down to 3% sounds fantastic. I assume you stopped using this strategy at some point?

San Diego Padres

A perfectly strict 2-man rotation in S10 (81 starts each). In S9, 3 guys started (81 starts, 80 starts, 1 start).

Why would you assume I've stopped using this strategy?
4/23/2010 3:21 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By kahrtmen on 4/23/2010I just took a look, and your pitchers are grabbing about 6.9% of your plate appearances. I was at 7.1% last season, without a tandem but with aggressive pinch hitting settings (5). I wonder how low that can go with the right settings


Just checked my MG team. 7.1% with average pinch hitting. Seems like a lot of work for about 15-20 AB a season.
4/23/2010 3:36 PM
moos3p
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I am only concerned with the pitcher ABs in games 3 and 5. Maybe 2 to 3 PH a game in those. So far, however, it seems pretty hard to pull off in a simulation. To hard to control when you pull the pitcher. At this point, I am averaging 6.5 runs either way, so the only benefit I am getting is less opportunities for an inferior pitcher to lose a game for me. (even that is almost a wash, less than .05 RA/G). But it's still early, I will do this for at least one full season and see how it finishes.
4/23/2010 4:12 PM
kahrtmen
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4/23/2010 4:22 PM
kahrtmen
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Just took a look at your stats, zbrent. I notice that your main starters didn't even get to 150 IP. It also looks like you are carrying 13-14 pitchers at a time. i think I might have to do the same to get it to work.

I have been getting 160-200 innings each from my starters the past few seasons. If I had to get their innings below 150 it would be hard for me to get enough innings. The main problem is that the first PH opportunity comes after only 2 IP, so it's tough to get the starter many innings. Its much easier to manage your pitcher innings when you don't have to worry about pinch hitting.

4/23/2010 5:02 PM
zbrent716
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Quote: Originally posted by kahrtmen on 4/23/2010Just took a look at your stats, zbrent. I notice that your main starters didn't even get to 150 IP. It also looks like you are carrying 13-14 pitchers at a time. i think I might have to do the same to get it to work.

I have been getting 160-200 innings each from my starters the past few seasons. If I had to get their innings below 150 it would be hard for me to get enough innings. The main problem is that the first PH opportunity comes after only 2 IP, so it's tough to get the starter many innings. Its much easier to manage your pitcher innings when you don't have to worry about pinch hitting.



Right, which is why I said I think it'd be very tough to get to or below 3% unless you had some truly exceptional RP to allow your staff to not have fatigue issues while only going 8-10 deep.
4/23/2010 5:08 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By kahrtmen on 4/23/2010
Quote: Why would you assume I've stopped using this strategy?[/QUOTE]
I guess it was the use of the past tense. MikeT, it's not just 15-20 ABs. zbrent had 200 pitcher PAs, whereas I had 450. That's 250 pitcher plate appearances being replaced with a regular hitter. Seems like it might be worth it to me


I was talking about the difference between 7.1%, what you and I have, and 6.9%, what he's getting.
4/23/2010 5:10 PM
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