The Press Was Always A Glitch Topic

vandydave
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For the past 3-4 years at least the press defense has operated ridculously effectively with almost no detriments.

Now that it appears that press teams are actually having to deal with stamina issues, foul issues, and giving up open shots (all the reasons why the press isn't run with any regularity or success in real life), press owners are slamming HD and talking about how unfair it all is.

Press has performed as one big glitch for the past few years, if that has finally been fixed press owners have little right to complain, rather they should rightfully feel that the cookie jar is finally being attempted to be shut.

For years I have argued that the press has been magic and it appears the new developer agrees, hopefully that is being changed...
5/27/2010 1:31 PM
sully712
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While the press may have had some advantages, it is not fair to make a huge change to how it works without giving a heads up or an option to change defenses. Not only is the press not magic, it seems impossible to run. My Georgetown team has 9 returning players and pretty good IQs. We can't run the press for sh*t. If you are going to make a huge change you need to give some warning or allow teams a chance to change. We spent several season changing our D and now it is worthless.

I am not saying the change is not good for the overall game but it is crappy how it was implemented.
5/27/2010 1:36 PM
sully712
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And, I've never understood why you constantly complain about the press but never changed defenses. You could have changed your defense if you thought it was so great.
5/27/2010 1:37 PM
vandydave
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Quote: Originally Posted By sully712 on 5/27/2010And, I've never understood why you constantly complain about the press but never changed defenses. You could have changed your defense if you thought it was so great
because i have principles, and out of those principles i refused to run what was clearly a mockery of actual basketball.
5/27/2010 1:38 PM
sully712
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Its a game...if there is a strategy that seems to be better, there is no reason not to use it. I never changed at FSU in Phelan and have done pertty well there.

Again, not trying to pick a fight, just saying.
5/27/2010 1:44 PM
dalter
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I agree that the press was too strong before. I think that was a pretty commonly accepted premise. I'm happy to see it reigned in a bit, that needed to happen.

That said, early returns are that the pendulum may have swung too far. I think we'll have a much better idea on that in a few weeks, but if we see press teams with top-tier talent really struggling, that will be pretty definitive.

And VD, I'm not a press coach, but the notion that not using the press somehow made you more "principled" is utter lunacy.
5/27/2010 1:45 PM
tarheel1991
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My opinion doesn't mean much, because I haven't played the game for a long time. I'm aware that many people are of the opinion that press has been too successful a defense for a long time, and it makes sense that they would reign it in a little bit. But I just took over a press team with my free HD credit for the update, and it looks like I've walked into an un-playable system. Our first exhibition my guys got tired so quickly that my team quickly fell apart against a really inferior opponent, despite having mostly guys with 80+/90+ stamina playing minutes in the mid-high 20s. We ended up with about 25 turnovers and 30 fouls, despite a team full of relatively high IQ guys, presumably because everyone was exhausted.


Does that seem right? I don't think it does. Was it a "glitch" before? Absolutely, it seems like it was from what everyone was saying. But should the correction make it so that far more talented teams running press are getting dominated because guys with great stamina can barely play 20 minutes effectively? I think that's just as bad as having press be too effective like it was before.


And to those saying press isn't realistic - that's fine; then don't make it an option in the game. But just like in GD - with the Notre Dame Box and Wishbone - if you're going to present it as a gameplan option, it should be able to be utilized just as effectively as anything else.


Oh, and there are teams in real life - Missouri is the best example - that run the press as a part of their basic defensive gameplan.
5/27/2010 1:45 PM
antonsirius
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Quote: Originally posted by dalter on 5/27/2010And VD, I'm not a press coach, but the notion that not using the press somehow made you more "principled" is utter lunacy.

Jesus told him not to use the press.
5/27/2010 1:48 PM
cthomas22255
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I agree with Sully.
If they have now made the press un-runnable, then it should be removed as an option to run. It was always unrealistic (trapping the ball everywhere, no one does that). But the solution to that problem is not to make it even more unrealistic--making it to where no one can run the system and win-- but to fix it. Having your whole team come back from halftime at TIRED doesn't make any sense to me. You can't win that way, so maybe you can't win with the press anymore.

I have 11 returning players, 6 seniors, 5 juniors. Probably highest returning IQs and STA in Phelan D1. The comparisons to last season will be pretty telling.

But, I imagine that in the next few months Seble will tweak things several times to make sure that every system is runnable. So, do I abandon the press or stick with it waiting on the inevitable changes?
5/27/2010 1:49 PM
vandydave
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Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 5/27/2010
I agree that the press was too strong before. I think that was a pretty commonly accepted premise. I'm happy to see it reigned in a bit, that needed to happen.

That said, early returns are that the pendulum may have swung too far. I think we'll have a much better idea on that in a few weeks, but if we see press teams with top-tier talent really struggling, that will be pretty definitive.

And VD, I'm not a press coach, but the notion that not using the press somehow made you more "principled" is utter lunacy.

even really talented teams in college hoops don't run the press for a reason, its darn near impossible to run well, that should be the case here.

dalter, dont be jealous i am more principled than you.
5/27/2010 1:50 PM
cheeznsweet
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Quote: Originally Posted By sully712 on 5/27/2010
While the press may have had some advantages, it is not fair to make a huge change to how it works without giving a heads up or an option to change defenses. Not only is the press not magic, it seems impossible to run. My Georgetown team has 9 returning players and pretty good IQs. We can't run the press for sh*t. If you are going to make a huge change you need to give some warning or allow teams a chance to change. We spent several season changing our D and now it is worthless.

I am not saying the change is not good for the overall game but it is crappy how it was implemented.



Your "pretty good IQs" in the press actually average out to on the cusp between B- and B based on minutes played in the first game. Your off IQ was B-. Arizona was a B+ in the Press and a B+/A- in their off. So they had a 2/3 or more letter grade advantage in IQ on both sides of the ball.

In general, everyone that has been complaining and talking vaguely about their good IQs and good stamina has had average to below average IQs and/or been playing a team with better IQs.
5/27/2010 1:51 PM
cheeznsweet
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Quote: Originally Posted By tarheel1991 on 5/27/2010My opinion doesn't mean much, because I haven't played the game for a long time. I'm aware that many people are of the opinion that press has been too successful a defense for a long time, and it makes sense that they would reign it in a little bit. But I just took over a press team with my free HD credit for the update, and it looks like I've walked into an un-playable system. Our first exhibition my guys got tired so quickly that my team quickly fell apart against a really inferior opponent, despite having mostly guys with 80+/90+ stamina playing minutes in the mid-high 20s. We ended up with about 25 turnovers and 30 fouls, despite a team full of relatively high IQ guys, presumably because everyone was exhausted.


Does that seem right? I don't think it does. Was it a "glitch" before? Absolutely, it seems like it was from what everyone was saying. But should the correction make it so that far more talented teams running press are getting dominated because guys with great stamina can barely play 20 minutes effectively? I think that's just as bad as having press be too effective like it was before.


And to those saying press isn't realistic - that's fine; then don't make it an option in the game. But just like in GD - with the Notre Dame Box and Wishbone - if you're going to present it as a gameplan option, it should be able to be utilized just as effectively as anything else.


Oh, and there are teams in real life - Missouri is the best example - that run the press as a part of their basic defensive gameplan.
Oh stop it. You basically played a FCP with 9 guys. Two guys that showed up in the boxscore had a total of 3 minutes. You had four guys at 26 minutes or more. Of course they're going to be tired. Thinking that this strategy would be plausible is ridiculous. You didn't walk into an unplayable system. You're making it unplayable with bad coaching decisions.
5/27/2010 1:58 PM
reinsel
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I do see VD's logic. And in Allen so far I don't think the pendulum has gone too far. Far enough to get some teams to drop press? Yes. Far enough that a press team like Miami or Memphis (in Allen) can't win....they still seem to be doing fine to me.

Bu we'll see. It is going to take more than 2 games that count to make this call.
5/27/2010 2:06 PM
reinsel
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Maryland in Allen is a high profile press team that is 0-2, but they have 1 senior, 2 juniors and only 5 players with a stamina of 80 or better and only 1 at 90.

They are getting wore out and tired.

Miami is doing fine, just beat #8 Syracuse, crushed sucky Mercer, and they have 4 seniors, 2 juniors and 4 sophomores. 7 players with 80 or more stamina, 3 with 90+.

Its not like press is bad for everyone, its just what us non-press coaches have said for years. If you try to press a team when you are slower, less athletic and have less depth, you should get beat. That is happening now. Press continues to work for athletic, deep, talented teams.
5/27/2010 2:16 PM
tarheel1991
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5/27/2010 2:21 PM
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