Speed and Stolen Bases Topic

Jtpsops
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I'm about to embark on my first HBD season and the world hasn't been created yet, so I wanted to ask two questions ahead of time:

1) What is considered a minimum speed rating if you're looking for guys to give you lots of SB and stretch some 2B into 3B

and

2) Are speed and baserunning ability related in HBD?  (ie: could you see a guy with a 50 or 60 speed rating who's a great base stealer? like 10/10 or 20/20? or do they need high-speed to be a good basestealer?  And conversely, are there high-speed guys who, for whatever reason, are atrocious baserunners that get thrown out a lot?)

6/25/2010 12:46 AM
mitchrapp
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Number 2 first, yes they're related. If you want to successfully steal bases.

Number 1, you might get a lot of answers on this but speed only, without regarding base running - 80 maybe?
6/25/2010 12:54 AM
apollo7
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Agreed, on number 1 you will get alot of answers, and the best way to really get a feel for it is through observation and trial and error.  80 is just as good an answer as 75 or 85, but you really can't look at that number in a vacuum (and apply that philosophy to all attributes as well, everything is interrelated).   But to try to give you a direct answer, my opinion is that if you have at least 80 in speed and 75 in baserunning you should be considered a basestealing threat.  My opinion, others may differ, is that speed is vital, while baserunning skill just needs to be good, and of course the higher the speed the more you can fudge on skill.

Number 2, yes they are related in that you need both to be a good basestealer.    To give you a direct answer, my experience is that no, you won't have a good basestealer regardless of baserunning skill if he is slow, and yes, you can have someone who is fast that is a terrible baserunner, but in my experience that combonation is usually rare.   Really fast guys tend to have pretty high baserunning skill.  No always mind you, but usually.

If you haven't already, read all the developers chats, you will find all kinds of good answers to questions like these.
 

6/25/2010 1:32 AM (edited)
Jtpsops
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Thanks.  I searched "speed" and "stolen bases" and nothing came up.  I'll dig deeper into the longer threads for more tips.
6/25/2010 1:31 AM
apollo7
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I just edited what I wrote to give a little more info, you might want to read it again.  Send me a sitemail if you have any questions about anything.   Unlike alot of people on the forums I enjoy helping new players.

6/25/2010 1:33 AM
apollo7
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Another thing to keep in mind is that a guy with high speed and baserunning also benifits more from high contact.  They can beat out more hits.   They also benifit more from high eye, by being able to turn a walk into a double.  I always want my speed guys to have very high contact and eye, more importantly that splits.  Power is icing.   For slower guys splits and power become much, much more important.
6/25/2010 1:39 AM
danmam
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Fernando Carreras is an example of what happens if you have high speed and low baserunning.
Morgan Harris shows that 80 speed is more than enough to be an adequate base-stealer (provided a good baserunning rating).
Junior Bennett is has numbers in both categories that are about as low as I'd go for a base-stealer. Wouldn't go below 70 speed or 60 baserunning. I've heard it said that you need to be successful at 75% of your steal attempts to make it worth stealing, and as you can see, approaching both 70 speed and 60 baserunning together will put your numbers below that.
6/25/2010 1:42 AM (edited)
zbrent716
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1) Good baserunning without great speed can make a decent stolen base threat. Lui has only 65 speed, but went 15/15 for me in half of a season based largely on his 87 baserunning. You won't generally see the sub-80 speed guys steal 50, 100, 150+ bases, but if they have a high baserunning they can steal 25 or 30 at a very high rate of success.

2) They aren't "related" to one another in the sense that if you have one you'll have the other, but to reach some of the absurd SB total (more than any in RL and at a higher success rate) you'll need both high speed and high baserunning both.
6/25/2010 1:43 AM
apollo7
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Not to wander off topic, but the non realistic steal success rate, in my opinion, is due to the tendancy of owners to value hitting over defense in their catchers in this game.   A catcher with 80s or higher in throw power and accuracy (and hopefully high PC), that can also hit are worth their weight in gold to me.  Owners in this game all want to try to set steal records and home run records, and setup both their roster and manager settings accordingly.  Use that info to your advantage. 
6/25/2010 1:51 AM
mitchrapp
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It has more to do with too many Tim Raines.
6/25/2010 5:27 AM
zbrent716
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Posted by mitchrapp on 6/25/2010 5:27:00 AM (view original):
It has more to do with too many Tim Raines.
Mitch is right with this, to a degree.

Too many Tim Raines, combined with the fact that the Ivan Rodriguez-type catchers are run on in the engine by the Tim Raines, means that the top basestealers put up those unrealistic individual totals and individual percentages. 

The Mike Piazza-type (or even Edgar Martinez-type) catchers get run on as well, of course, just by more people, but the cream of the crop run on anyone.
6/25/2010 5:36 AM
douglasdao
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Do 1B and 3B coach ratings have any effect on the success of taking an extra base? For example, will a 3B coach with a high baserunning rating have fewer guys thrown out at home?
6/25/2010 10:27 AM
zbrent716
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Posted by douglasdao on 6/25/2010 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Do 1B and 3B coach ratings have any effect on the success of taking an extra base? For example, will a 3B coach with a high baserunning rating have fewer guys thrown out at home?
Based on the (admittedly unclear) HELP screens, I think the answer to this is no. The 3B coach's IQ Rating impacts development, not in-game play.

 - This is the coach's baserunning IQ rating. The higher the rating, the more he'll help your players develop their baserunning skills.
6/25/2010 11:43 AM
schuyler101
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Posted by zbrent716 on 6/25/2010 11:43:00 AM (view original):
Posted by douglasdao on 6/25/2010 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Do 1B and 3B coach ratings have any effect on the success of taking an extra base? For example, will a 3B coach with a high baserunning rating have fewer guys thrown out at home?
Based on the (admittedly unclear) HELP screens, I think the answer to this is no. The 3B coach's IQ Rating impacts development, not in-game play.

 - This is the coach's baserunning IQ rating. The higher the rating, the more he'll help your players develop their baserunning skills.
I've always wondered about this as well.  It seems counter-intuitive what the help screen says.
6/25/2010 1:05 PM
apollo7
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Posted by douglasdao on 6/25/2010 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Do 1B and 3B coach ratings have any effect on the success of taking an extra base? For example, will a 3B coach with a high baserunning rating have fewer guys thrown out at home?
Agree with zbrent, per everything I've read, their rating only effects it indirectly, by improving individual baserunning skill ratings.  Their rating is not included in the equation that determines a particular instance''s outcome.
6/25/2010 1:42 PM
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