I'm sure everyone that has played a decent amount of basketball knows that one of the biggest keys for getting rebounds is BOXING OUT. how effectively you box your man out correlates often with how closely you are guarding your man. hence, + defense should help rebounding to a certain extent.

of course, being close to the hoop helps, but unless you're too tired to box out effectively then you want to be out farther to box your man out. + defense should theoretically be more tiring, and tie rebounding more closely with fatigue (where if you are fresh, + helps your rebounding, but if you are tired, + hurts your rebounding).

at least for M2M defense. i'll think more about the zone ramifications later

You are thinking about what people say +/- defense is on the forums; this is not necessarily what it is.  A plus defense is supposed to defend the perimeter at the expense of the area close to the basket.  E.g., if the opposing SF breaks free for an open outside jumper, your PF or C is going to run out at him.  If you were playing a minus defense, the your PF and C would stay at home.

There are a lot of subjects in the FAQ that need re-writing and this topic is clearly near the top of the list. In spite of the inferrences in the FAQ, the +5 does not mean that the defense forms an arc 20 feet from the basket nor does -5 mean that the defense lines up like a free throw under the basket. The +/- basically refers to how close or far away a defensive player guards his man. In generic terms a +5 means the defensive player is nose-to-nose on his opponent and a - 5 means the defensive player is perhaps an arms length or more away. Obviously this puts the defense closer to or farther from the basket as well, but that is not the main objective. The effectiveness of the + defense is that it smothers the perimeter shooter and restricts his vision and jumping ability thus affecting his long range shot. The effectiveness of the - defense is that it cuts off the passing lanes and gives the slower defender more room to react to a quicker opponent. I may not have explained this exactly but that is the gist of what TK, the original HD creater and programmer, told us previously. I don't think seble has changed this in the new engine.

jetwildcat, what you're saying is incorrect. I played HS basketball, my best friend is a college coach, my dad coached in HS for a number of years, etc.

If you're guarding your man that closely, let's say you're face guarding a shooter, you're bound to get burnt on the boxout because you don't have enough room to check him and get your *** into him (that is, if he's going after the offensive rebound very hard, which most people that you're face guarding/no help probably won't be). 

If you're letting a team chuck it, you're going to have time to set up and beat your man to a spot on the boxout. 

Now, practically speaking, the fouling thing doesn't make much sense. You'd get a helluva a lot more hand checks if you were playing everyone on the perimeter tight. You'd get less fouls on drives (that get inside the lane) or rebounds of course. 

I tend to think about defensive positioning primarily with respect to how you want your defense to react to the dribble drive.  If you're running a man-to-man without doubling, obviously when the ball is moving around the perimeter/being held in the post/being moved via the pass everybody is going to stick with their man; in other words, the offense and not the defense is the primary determining factor in defensive position.  However, on a dribble drive when everything breaks down a bit some teams collapse toward the inside to slow down the driver and protect against other cutters.  Others will keep the perimeter defenders outside to prevent a drive and kick and a quick open 3.  If you think of +/- defense as a reaction to the dribble drive it makes more sense with respect to what the results of each positioning are.  More fouls are certainly committed in the paint than on the perimeter, so working harder to contest shots in the paint means more fouls.  More men in the paint means more guys to grab boards, so more boards happen in the - defense.

Good defensive skills, in say the M2M, is all about footwork, reaction time, and some anticipation on how the guy you are guarding likes to create shots. Really doesn't have that much to do with boxing out. Take Bruce Bowen, for example, great defender, not so great in rebounding, or boxing out.

And aejones is correct. Boxing out is about putting your *** into the other person and prevent him from getting between you and the basket. If you are playing tight D, it is harder to box out than playing a little bit more off the ball/playing running crosses.

Edit: That *** is the word starting with A, and rhymes with Gas, in case you are wondering.

thats why zone is best for reb. 

Posted by brianp87 on 8/17/2010 5:10:00 PM (view original):
thats why zone is best for reb. 

Ummmm, debatable...some people would say it's the worst

Not debatable. Press is the worse.

Plenty debatable.  Zone is awful for rebounding, as it should be. 

Posted by usc4life on 8/17/2010 6:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by brianp87 on 8/17/2010 5:10:00 PM (view original):
thats why zone is best for reb. 

Ummmm, debatable...some people would say it's the worst

I assume brianp was kidding. Zone's always been the weakest when it comes to reb, m2m the best.

if the player you're guarding is the one taking the shot, he'll be much easier to box out if you are in his face.

if the player you're guarding is not the one taking the shot, picture this scenario: you're on offense, your teammate takes a shot and your defender tries to box you out. what do you want in order to get a rebound? well, obviously you want position, but if you don't have position you want space to get around the defender. if he's in your face (within reason not necessarily hip to hip) he's tougher to get around. of course, better rebounders use space better, so that should be a factor too...the more - the defense, the more it favors the better rebounder.

and part of the reason why zone is awful for rebounding is because the offensive players have space to get position for the rebound, much like if you played a - defense.

Posted by girt25 on 8/17/2010 8:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by usc4life on 8/17/2010 6:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by brianp87 on 8/17/2010 5:10:00 PM (view original):
thats why zone is best for reb. 

Ummmm, debatable...some people would say it's the worst

I assume brianp was kidding. Zone's always been the weakest when it comes to reb, m2m the best.

Ok that's what I thought haha...either that or I got this whole basketball thing all messed up

My team has always had some dominant rebounders who always perform significantly less well on the boards than I hope, probably because of our zone defense.  I have a sophomore now who by the end of next season should be at 100 reb and mid-to-upper-40s athleticism.  If he doesn't get at least 8  boards/game in D3 his senior season I'm gonna be ******.

the engine is still weird for rebounds and assists per game. in iba big east only one guy had 7 boards per game in the whole conference this year.