How do you "pull a recruit down"? Topic

coach_deen
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Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've read about coaches "pulling players down". I'm at a DIII school and getting ready for recruiting. I think I have a good idea of what pulling a recruit down is, just not how to do it. Is there a pretty "sure" way to pull a recruit down, and if yes, what is it?

10/26/2010 12:20 PM
Weena
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There are several factors to consider in doing this correctly. First, you need to understand that this is a semi-costly process so look for players nearby. I would definitely stay within 350 miles of your campus and the closer the better. If there are any players you like within 70 miles of your campus, you have a much greater chance of them responding positively. Within that range you can get players to talk to you that otherwise would not if they were farther away. Next, you need to send out one (1) phone call to all the prospects you might consider pulling down. If the player doesn't respond at all or if he says no way then that means No. There is no chance they will ever change their minds. However, if a player indicates you are a backup then he could be pulled down. 

Once you have identified the player(s) you want, then you want to consider when to begin the pulldown process. Some coaches do it the cycle after they get the backup notice. Other coaches wait until Day 2 or 3 of recruiting to see if the player is grabbed by a DII school or a higher DIII school. Other coaches, don't start until after signing begins. You have to judge your prestige against how good the player is and the chance he will be snatched up and you lose your investment. 

For the process itself, here is what I do. I send 1 phone call, 1 letter, 1 coach call, 10 scouting trips, and a schollie offer. That normally is enough. If in some cases that is not enough, then I send between 2-5 more scouting trips.  I don't waste my time sending HV's or CV's because they will be rejected and I don't make any promises because it is not necessary. I rarely use promises but if I do it is only in a battle with another coach.

That is pretty much it. Other coaches may approach it differently but this is what works for me.

10/26/2010 1:08 PM
hughesjr
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The key thing to know here is that in the process Weena describes, the goal is to send "Recruiting Effort" that the recruit can not (or will not) deny.

Phone calls, letters, and Coaching Calls are usually not refused, but are also not very helpful from an effort stand point ... although the Call Coach does provide you with good information, so doing 1 or 2 of them can be helpful. 

A Scouting Trip is the action that provides the "most band for the buck" and can not be refused by the recruit.  Each one also provides you with detailed information about the recruit.  These are the way most coaches I have asked about this process use most to perform a pull down.

There are several threads discussing how many "Scouting Trips" you may need to offer to effect a pull down.  My personal experience is that it normally takes between 10-15 trips for most recruits.  I have had to use up to 25 "Scouting Trips" on occasion.

The guy will normally either start considering you after the scouting trip(s) are processed, or he will send you an e-mail saying he wants to come to your school and asking you to contact him (like any other drop down would do).

10/26/2010 1:29 PM
hughesjr
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Also, since Scouting Trips are involved, the father you are from the recruit the more it costs. 

It is also critical to understand that the recruit only cares about effort (10 Trips), not cash spent.  So if you spend $4,000 on 10 trips at $400 each and if I spend $8,000 on 4 trips at $2,000 each, then you have put forth 2.5 times more effort in the eyes of the recruit than I have.  Some coaches only talk about dollars spent ... but it is total effort than matters.


10/26/2010 1:35 PM
prezuiwf
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Question: I am a DII school. I have previously beaten DI schools for recruits, so I know it can be done, but those were recruits who were already drop downs or already DII-level. So my question is, is it ever possible to pull down a recruit who has a DI school on them? I'm in Puerto Rico so I have a sizable distance advantage over virtually all DI schools. If a recruit has told me I'm a "maybe" but then he gets attention from a mid-major or lower-tier DI school, is it ever still possible for me to nab him, or should I give up?
10/26/2010 3:12 PM
kypride
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Give it up...it's nearly impossible to pull down a player who's already considering a D1 school
10/26/2010 3:47 PM
wsut
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Posted by prezuiwf on 10/26/2010 3:12:00 PM (view original):
Question: I am a DII school. I have previously beaten DI schools for recruits, so I know it can be done, but those were recruits who were already drop downs or already DII-level. So my question is, is it ever possible to pull down a recruit who has a DI school on them? I'm in Puerto Rico so I have a sizable distance advantage over virtually all DI schools. If a recruit has told me I'm a "maybe" but then he gets attention from a mid-major or lower-tier DI school, is it ever still possible for me to nab him, or should I give up?
Prez, you don't have enough prestige to even consider going against a D1 school. It's been done before, but normally by only the cream of the crop D2 schools against SIM D- D1's. Even if the kid said you were a backup, you would have to spend a pretty penny to even be considered by the recruit. 
10/26/2010 4:45 PM
metsmax
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When I was in DII or DIII, I used to send a phone call to each candidate for a drop down to see if I got the suitable answer.  Then, I would do a coach call for each who might be a drop down - to find out offense and defense in case that would be a tiebreaker in deciding who to chase....then see answers above
10/26/2010 4:47 PM
coach_billyg
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Posted by prezuiwf on 10/26/2010 3:12:00 PM (view original):
Question: I am a DII school. I have previously beaten DI schools for recruits, so I know it can be done, but those were recruits who were already drop downs or already DII-level. So my question is, is it ever possible to pull down a recruit who has a DI school on them? I'm in Puerto Rico so I have a sizable distance advantage over virtually all DI schools. If a recruit has told me I'm a "maybe" but then he gets attention from a mid-major or lower-tier DI school, is it ever still possible for me to nab him, or should I give up?
if its a sim (meaning he won't put in more effort) and the FSS word on the street is the weaker one, not the strong one (not seems *very* solid on XYZ etc), then it definitely can be done. i tend to go overboard in my enthusiasm for battling higher division schools, so maybe you should not listen to me. my thought is, if there are a bunch of guys about as good, and one a lot better going for a higher division school, ill try to pull from the pool of roughly equal recruits on the cheap and have no problem throwing the rest (and the large share of the initial budget) at a guy i very easily could lose. last year, i almost managed to beat an a- BCS school (human coached) with my d2 school but sadly it was not meant to be. but i would try it again in a heartbeat, ive had enough successes to make up for the losses. plus, its just really exciting. its like david and goliath, you have nothing to lose, except being crushed mercilessly, but when you do, its like, you should have been crushed any way. so just taking on the challenge is admirable. and if you win, its like... well, insert basketball cliche of a giant upset (66 and 85 come to mind).

edit: kind of got away from my point there. if its a sim and the lower word on the street, i wouldn't just say its possible to win, i would expect it to happen. it won't be cheap (could be upwards of 10k, or it could be a few k). i am not sure but i dont think ive ever lost to a d1 sim - the key is to pick your battles carefully. just fight the ones you expect to win. its pretty deterministic with sims, and thus they are the easier targets. so if you aren't sure because you don't have experience, well, then there is no time like the present to experiment. once you try it a few times you will know when you can win and when you can't - and when its a crap shoot you are willing to take (i love crap shoots... but as vegas has proven time and time again, they don't love me!).

10/26/2010 5:33 PM (edited)
hawkfan1992
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Wow - never knew all of this stuff.  Explains why I'm decent in D1 and suck in D3!
10/26/2010 6:05 PM
grimacedance
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In D3, anytime I've pulled down a D2 recruit, I always get the "you're a backup option" messages from the player/HS coach/my assistant.  If you get a straight up, "No way I'm going to your school" message, move on. I suppose it is possible to pull that guy down, but I've never done it and it would probably be very, very expensive.

I've also never had a dropdown officially consider me before the signing deadline.

So the typical process for me looks like this:

-- See a D2 player that I like when I search right before recruiting starts.
-- Make a phone call to the player and the coach.
-- If I get the "No way am I coming," message, cross them off the list. If I get "you are my backup option" message, continue.
-- Wait and pray that a D2 school doesn't notice the player.
-- In the first cycle after signings start, hit them with my recruiting pitch (calls, visits, evals, etc.).
10/27/2010 11:28 PM
tianyi7886
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Quick and related question, if you pull down a recruit, does the recruit still drop down to other D3 coaches or do they also need to pull him down to recruit him?
10/28/2010 1:16 AM
dahsdebater
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Posted by grimacedance on 10/27/2010 11:28:00 PM (view original):
In D3, anytime I've pulled down a D2 recruit, I always get the "you're a backup option" messages from the player/HS coach/my assistant.  If you get a straight up, "No way I'm going to your school" message, move on. I suppose it is possible to pull that guy down, but I've never done it and it would probably be very, very expensive.

I've also never had a dropdown officially consider me before the signing deadline.

So the typical process for me looks like this:

-- See a D2 player that I like when I search right before recruiting starts.
-- Make a phone call to the player and the coach.
-- If I get the "No way am I coming," message, cross them off the list. If I get "you are my backup option" message, continue.
-- Wait and pray that a D2 school doesn't notice the player.
-- In the first cycle after signings start, hit them with my recruiting pitch (calls, visits, evals, etc.).
If they say no you can spend all the money in the world and they will NEVER be pulled down.  So don't listen to that bit of this...
10/28/2010 2:13 AM
mduncanhogs
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So if you are at a D3 school and you have 4 available scholarships, is it wise to try to pull down recruits for all 4, or should you focus on just 1 or 2 guys you want to pull down and try to sign D3 recruits with the rest of the schollies?
10/29/2010 3:46 PM
tkimble
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Posted by mduncanhogs on 10/29/2010 3:46:00 PM (view original):
So if you are at a D3 school and you have 4 available scholarships, is it wise to try to pull down recruits for all 4, or should you focus on just 1 or 2 guys you want to pull down and try to sign D3 recruits with the rest of the schollies?
I just tried to pull down an entire class in Tark and two of the guys ended up getting picked off by d2 schools, so no, I'd say I'd focus on 1 or 2 guys to start out with.
10/29/2010 4:02 PM
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