Ayone else agree with me? Topic

isack24
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http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/Boxscore.aspx?gid=33645024&pbp=0

5-1 game in the 7th.

I have a runner at third and 1 out. 

Groundball to SS, runner doesn't score.

Seems to me that the defense is almost certainly conceding that run to get the out, and any ball to SS, even if in the hole, is going to score the runner.

CS told me "it happens."

I disagree, I don't think it ever happens this way.

Thoughts?

1/3/2011 7:12 PM
Braziman
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What is the speed rating of the runner who was on third?

I'm guessing somebody on the order of Boog Powell does not necessarily sprint home from third on a groundball to SS.

1/3/2011 7:16 PM
Crump123
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24SPD, 54BR, he would be tied to 3B. If you're manager setting is 5 for very aggresive base running, you might have a case, but otherwise i think it played ok.
1/3/2011 7:28 PM
isack24
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24, but I'm not sure it matters.

I've never, ever seen a guy hold on a groundball to SS with the defense back, especially at a point in the game when he knows the defense has no interest in coming home.
1/3/2011 7:29 PM
isack24
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I'm not trying to be a dick, but have you guys ever played baseball?

No one is ever "tied to 3B" when the third baseman is playing back, which he certainly would be in that situation.

But I guess this answers my question: people who don't really know the game don't seem to have a problem with it, so WIS doesn't seem to, either.

Nevermind, I guess.
1/3/2011 7:31 PM
tecwrg
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So people who disagree with you "don't really know the game"?  Maybe you are being a dick.

What's your baserunning aggressiveness set at?

Slow baserunner (speed of 24) and a SS with with a strong arm (90).  I'm not sure why you're assuming that an attempt to score is a given.  Especially when you're down by 4 with a big hitter on deck.
1/3/2011 7:53 PM
cebola
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A slow runner is certainly not going "on contact" in that situation. 

Ask admin if the SS was coming in on the ball, which would make a throw home, rather than across his body, much easier!
1/3/2011 8:02 PM
isack24
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OK, I was being a dick.

OK, I can't prove a negative, so if someone can show me one time in the history of baseball that a guy didn't score on a groundball to the SHORTSTOP with the infield back, I'll give in.  Just once. 

Why are they conceding that run with a big hitter on deck?  Because there will be two outs and no one on.  It's baseball 101.  The guys at third can get a good secondary because no one is holding him.  Slow or not, he's going on contact because the third baseman is back.  Especially on a ball where the 3B would clearly be moving to his left (and especially especially on a ball so far to his left that he couldn't get to).

Seriously, this is little league-type stuff.
1/3/2011 8:02 PM
isack24
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Oh my god.  It doesn't matter if he's coming in.  He's playing back, otherwise it would there would be an "infield in" indicator.  When was the last time you've seen a SS come home from in the hole at short when he wasn't playing in?

Seriously, when?
1/3/2011 8:03 PM
cebola
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I'm not sure conceding a run is a given with an easy target coming home, infield back or not.;  not in the 7th anyway.  A team with seven outs to go can easily put up another three runs to tie the game.  I think the run is still valuable here.
 

1/3/2011 8:17 PM
The__Kid
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The SS wasn't playing in the hole or playing back.  He was playing normal depth.  With a hard hit GB, I've seen several SS look the runner back and make the throw to 1st.   To let that run score, you leave the chance of giving the other team's offense the two opportunities to have 2 runners on with the tying run at the plate.   The SS would not go home without seeing the runner break.   Baserunning aggressiveness would have to be a factor in that.
1/3/2011 8:23 PM
isack24
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By definition, the middle infield is conceding the run when playing back.  If they wanted to go home, they would be in.  Again, if you can name one time in the history of baseball that a SS came home after playing back (assuming the runner didn't fall down or something), then I'll say "fine."

OK, well, I'll drop it.

I think you're all very, very wrong, but at least there's a clear difference of opinion, so I'm not going to whine to WIS.
1/3/2011 8:23 PM
isack24
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Posted by The__Kid on 1/3/2011 8:23:00 PM (view original):
The SS wasn't playing in the hole or playing back.  He was playing normal depth.  With a hard hit GB, I've seen several SS look the runner back and make the throw to 1st.   To let that run score, you leave the chance of giving the other team's offense the two opportunities to have 2 runners on with the tying run at the plate.   The SS would not go home without seeing the runner break.   Baserunning aggressiveness would have to be a factor in that.
"Normal depth" for a ML SS is just in front of the grass.

I seriously doubt you've ever seen a ML SS look back a runner to 3B.
1/3/2011 8:25 PM
tecwrg
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Again . . . what is your baserunning agressiveness set at?
1/3/2011 8:34 PM
isack24
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3.  But again, I think it's a pretty textbook go on contact with the infield at normal depth, especially if it's not right at the 3B, which it clearly wasn't.

I'd honestly be willing to concede it if someone could find one play in the history of baseball where a SS came home from normal depth.
1/3/2011 8:47 PM
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