Splits vs. pitch ratings Topic

txvbcoach
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Just out of curiosity, what do you gents think is more important for a pitcher, splits or pitch ratings.
2/16/2011 3:20 PM
txvbcoach
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I know 60 or 65 is about as low as you want to go for splits for a ML, 60 is seems to be a majic # for pitches.
2/16/2011 3:28 PM
mhulshult
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http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?ForumID=58&TopicID=434665&ThreadID=9358913#l_9358913

I don't know which one I'd say is more important.  They're kind of like love and marriage..."you can't have one without the other".
2/16/2011 3:32 PM
jtrinsey
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I'll say this; I don't think I've ever seen a pitcher with splits in the 80s be ineffective. I've seen plenty of guys with a pitch in the 80s who suck.
2/17/2011 2:31 PM
mhulshult
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I don't have an example, but splits of 85/85 and pitches of 59/43/38/22/17 would be ineffective.  He may make someone's ML team, but he's not keeping his ERA under 5.00 over the coarse of his career.
2/17/2011 3:14 PM
jtrinsey
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Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Joe Russell had pitches that weren't quite that bad (63/55/32/20 after his S10 injury) but his splits (71/80) weren't 85/85 either and he was an above-average pitcher.
2/17/2011 3:23 PM
taz21
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<a style="color:black;" href="http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=2366805" target="_blank">Charlie Hammond</a>

there's a player w/ great control, great pitchers, good sink, and terrible splits.  He was in the majors for the previous coach, and a little bit of my tenure until I could right the ship, but he's posted a 5.37 era, 1.47 whip over 283 ML innings.  Give him about 30 points divided up b/w his vR & vL and you'd have a regular all star.  But the 48/60 splits make him nothing more than the classic AAA pitcher.
2/17/2011 4:16 PM
jvford
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But the same thing could be said about pitchers with good pitches like:

Magglio Leon
Pedro Zapata
Flash Zagone

All 3 have vR below 60 but have good pitch(es).  The key is that you can have substandard ratings when they're offset by exceptional ratings.
2/17/2011 4:19 PM
jvford
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Posted by taz21 on 2/17/2011 4:16:00 PM (view original):
<a style="color:black;" href="http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=2366805" target="_blank">Charlie Hammond</a>

there's a player w/ great control, great pitchers, good sink, and terrible splits.  He was in the majors for the previous coach, and a little bit of my tenure until I could right the ship, but he's posted a 5.37 era, 1.47 whip over 283 ML innings.  Give him about 30 points divided up b/w his vR & vL and you'd have a regular all star.  But the 48/60 splits make him nothing more than the classic AAA pitcher.
Actually, this guy could be a #4/5 SP easily.  Most of his ML innings came when he had 5 less points in control, vR, P1, P3, and 7 less points in P4.
2/17/2011 4:38 PM
new
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If the other ratings are good enough you can overcome almost anything.  For instance, Hart went 22-2 with decent whip, era with splits of 33/39 in season-6
2/17/2011 4:51 PM
jtrinsey
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Harvey Hart (in addition to having a sweet name) might be the most unique pitcher I've ever seen in HBD.

But I think the argument wasn't about, "do you need splits better than X" to be successful, it's, "what's more important, splits or pitches." I would argue splits.

2/17/2011 11:18 PM
RoyalOkie
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If you have a better pitch calling catcher, I believe the pitches can help compensate for poorer splits.
2/18/2011 7:30 AM
jvford
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Posted by jtrinsey on 2/17/2011 11:18:00 PM (view original):

Harvey Hart (in addition to having a sweet name) might be the most unique pitcher I've ever seen in HBD.

But I think the argument wasn't about, "do you need splits better than X" to be successful, it's, "what's more important, splits or pitches." I would argue splits.

I think I disagree, but it really depends on how you define it.  I think if the question was "what's more important - vR or P1" the answer would be vR.

However, if the question was "what's more important - vR or P1, P2, and P3" the answer would be the pitches.
2/18/2011 11:47 AM
boogerlips
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Here's another link to a previous discussion that had, IMO, more in depth analysis than the previous link posted...
http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?TopicID=421603
2/19/2011 4:19 AM
Splits vs. pitch ratings Topic
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